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How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory
111–120 of 255 posts
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're writing as if somehow general pandemic response has been deprioritized in favor investigating the lab leak theory, which is absurdly far from reality. This incident has cost millions of lives and possibly undone decades of progress on reducing poverty worldwide. It is worth pursuing multiple angles in parallel.
Pandemic response in the USA was atrocious, and it's politically convenient for those who support the administration that was responsible to try to deflect blame however they can. So I'm very skeptical of the motives of people that keep posting stuff like this.
The academic community is pretty opposed to the trump administration, which also is the one blamed for the covid response. Don't see why they'd be bending over to defend it there.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory
#113> It spawned racist rumors like “Chinese labs sell their dead experimental animals in food markets.” First, I don't see how is this racist. Second, this is not rumor, there are Chinese articles about how some lab members were punished. The author lost credibility here.
Suggesting that because it has happened before in China, "Chinese labs" do it, is indeed racist.
Calling pattern recognition racist is a bad move because due to being necessary for survival it will never go away. You should probably focus on what is factual instead of what you dont want to be true and then calling it racist.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory
#114So in essence, the lab leak theory got scrapped right off the bat b/c we as a society have developed an aversion to Trump?
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory
#115So I generally give like zero weight to conspiracy theories. That being said, I don't believe anyone can reasonably claim with any degree certainty that Covid was a lab-leak BUT the WHO investigation simply hasn't done their due diligence to a sufficient degree to eliminate this theory. Unfortunately the WHO's credibility is trained here. In the early days of the pandemic the WHO bent over backwards not to upset Chin…
> So I generally give like zero weight to conspiracy theories. That being said, I don't believe anyone can reasonably claim with any degree certainty that Covid was a lab-leak BUT the WHO investigation simply hasn't done their due diligence to a sufficient degree to eliminate this theory.
It's okay, you're among open-minded people here!
FWIW, I think we should stop couching any critical examination of the received theory as if we're defending Heliocentrism in front of the Inquisition.
The evidence for gain-of-function lab leak is at this point entirely circumstantial, but that at least is evidence, not just speculation (or, worse, blind zealotry flying in the face of evidence). It's not a water-tight theory, but it's not ludicrous.
What we need is an investigation that follows those circumstantial leads and uncovers the truth. The CCP being the strongly authoritarian regime that is, often immune to impolitic truths, this may be politically impossible. But we shouldn't waver in at least discussing what could be true, even if the hypothesis ends up proven false.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory
#116And China’s lack of candor is disturbing. It denies access to the institute’s lab logs and whatever messages were swapped during its own investigations, took down 2018 statements critical of lab biosecurity protocols, retaliated against Australia for advocating an open investigation and sharply restricted the W.H.O. investigators.
Would the USA have been any more open if an American government lab was suspected as the source of an outbreak? Especially under the former administration which outright lied to the American people about the severity of the pandemic.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory
#117There's basically no evidence either way, although the outbreak being in a city with a class 4 bio lab actively studying sars viruses does on the surface seem to make the lab leak more probable. Bit of a coincidence. What really makes me think though is the way China is being uncooperative. You'd think if they were innocent they wouldn't need to limit access to data and prevent investigation of the Wuhan lab. Maybe t…
People are absolutely shocked when I tell them what China reports as their numbers for testing and cases.
Given how much control they have, and how much of a priority saving face is, governance in China is rife with perverse incentives.
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory
#118So I generally give like zero weight to conspiracy theories. That being said, I don't believe anyone can reasonably claim with any degree certainty that Covid was a lab-leak BUT the WHO investigation simply hasn't done their due diligence to a sufficient degree to eliminate this theory. Unfortunately the WHO's credibility is trained here. In the early days of the pandemic the WHO bent over backwards not to upset Chin…
> I don’t believe for a second this virus was in _any way_ engineered.
Does ‘selection’ constitutes engineering in your vocabulary. And if yes, then why don’t you believe that this virus was carefully selected during the gain of function research?
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory
#119> The whole world, China included, needs a hard answer, whoever is to blame — so we can prevent this from happening again.
Really?
Is that what will happen if someone confirms the lab leak theory?
We just tighten bio security in labs and off we go, back to normal?
Don’t make me laugh.
This isn’t about science any more, it’s about playing the blame game and deflecting responsibility for a massive public health disaster by an administration that lacked competence to deal with it.
It would be economically catastrophic for China to admit any evidence that implicated them.
So... given the overwhelming cost of releasing evidence, what the hell benefit is there from pinpointing blame?
Restore trust? It’ll only cost you trillions of dollars in blame and finger pointing... yeah right.
That is never going to happen.
So... we’ll never know.
Attempts to resolve this haven’t convinced me that the effort is not better spent trying resolve the current situation, rather than blame someone else for it.
Am I missing something?
Seriously, given how plausible either animal or lab leak scenarios are, we are required to address both to prevent future pandemics.
How does knowing one way or another help?
Re: How I learned to stop worrying and love the lab-leak theory
#120We may never know for 100% certain if it truly was a lab leak, but what we can be certain of is the denialism and withholding of information in the crucial first 2 months of the emergence of the virus. In at least this, China is culpable for devastating millions of lives and disrupting the global economy, all for the Chinese government to save face.
Edit: Removed claim about Chinese new year