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Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

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Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#311

Post by runarberg »

sequoia wrote: post #231
Kranar wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you find a single reference stating that it's the most dense city or area in the world? I tried looking for one but failed. There are well over 10,000 cities in the world and Gaza City is likely among the top 500 for population density, which would put it in the top 5%. Do you generally call things out as being untrustworthy for claiming that the top 5% is among the highest in a rank?

Here is a single reference: https://www.middleeastobserver.org/2016/07/12/pcbs-reports-g... "Do you generally call things out as being untrustworthy for claiming that the top 5% is among the highest in a rank?" The reason I consider this claim "misleading" is that I never see the "one of the most densely populated..." phrase on stories about Paris, Kathmandu, Seoul or any of the hundreds of more densely populated are…

Since the original post is about Google maps, lets use that as a tool for a moment:

Gaza city and Tel Aviv have about the same population size according to Wikipedia (about 590,000 and 460,000 respectively). The Tel Aviv metro area is about 1,500 km² which is almost 3 times larger then the entire Gaza strip (365 km²). The Tel Aviv urban area has about half the population size of the entire Gaza Strip while the Tel Aviv Metro area has almost double the population size as the entire Gaza strip. Both Tel Aviv and Gaza city border the coast, both are somewhat bounded by borders to the East.

So Gaza and Tel Aviv should be somewhat comparable when we look them on a map. However if you take a look at this:

First Tel Aviv: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0703502,34.8333795,11.38z

It looks pretty normal, a dense urban core with some sprawl around it.

Now lets look at Gaza City with the same zoom level: https://www.google.com/maps/@31.5083142,34.4330704,11z

Now this looks odd. There is only the dense urban core and then some nothing and then some borders. This is not how cities grow naturally.

Look at a zoomed in level of Gaza City: https://www.google.com/maps/@31.517549,34.4848539,13.55z

And the same zoom level of Tel Aviv: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0641297,34.8076298,13.55z

Notice how abruptly the Gaza City ends, while Tel Aviv looks like a city. Clearly there is something going on there. Looking at the map alone I would not guess that Gaza City was a city the same size as Tel Aviv. I think it is worth reporting this fact given the anomalous nature of Gaza.

Another—and a more important—reason this is worth reporting is precisely the fact that Gaza is a densely populated area that is abnormally bounded in growth. This makes Gaza unique (except maybe Singapore and Hong Kong; but I do recall news media like mentioning those as being densely populated as well).

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#312

Post by nyolfen »

Scoundreller wrote: post #291

Usually what I do in these situations is jump to Yandex maps, but they're the pulling the same censoring in Gaza and surroundings. Here's a French prison blurred out on Google Maps, but uncensored on Yandex: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Prison+%22La+Sant%C3%A9%22/... https://yandex.com/maps/org/tyurma_sante/117105575064/?l=sat...

i am guessing that the israelis approach governments or corporations with the request to reduce the quality of imagery of israeli territory in order to hinder hamas' OSINT efforts, and include the caveat that gaza etc be blurred out as well to preserve the appearance of neutrality; obviously the israeli state has access to high quality imaging outside of google maps et al

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#313

Post by jakelazaroff »

sequoia wrote: post #296
avip wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking? I didn't do any. I divided the #pop by #area in units I can relate to (Km^2), then looked at the table and figured out it would be #5.

Ok I think I’m able to piece back together what you’re talking about: it sounds like you’re ranking Gaza on the list of most densely populated “Country (or dependent territory)” but excluding cities. The article refers to it as one of the most densely populated “places” in the world. What’s the reason for excluding cities when ranking the most densely populated places in the world? When I imagine “the most densely po…

Because Gaza is, for all intents and purposes, a city-state, like Singapore or Hong Kong. It’s not really one part of a larger nation, so it doesn’t make sense to compare it to places that are.

It’s also being blockaded by its neighbors, so there is no freedom of movement in or out. If rockets are fired at Bnei Brak, the residents there can flee to the rest of Israel. If rockets are fired at Gaza, the residents have nowhere to go.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#314

Post by sequoia »

eightysixfour wrote: post #300
sequoia wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I think I’m able to piece back together what you’re talking about: it sounds like you’re ranking Gaza on the list of most densely populated “Country (or dependent territory)” but excluding cities. The article refers to it as one of the most densely populated “places” in the world. What’s the reason for excluding cities when ranking the most densely populated places in the world? When I imagine “the most densely po…

They are not removing cities blindly, they are only including cities with more than 1m people. That removes places like Pateros which, while incredibly dense, are not particularly populous.

Avip is not including cities when s/he ranks Gaza #5, s/he is only including countries. If I asked you "what's the most densely populated place in the world?" you would probably answer with the name of a city. Avip is excluding cities from his "densely populated places" ranking. This doesn't make sense to me. If you say "world's most densely populated places" of course I'm going to think of cities, as anyone would.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#315

Post by golemiprague »

golergka wrote: post #255
sequoia wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the country list, I see Israel is the #5 most densely populated country in the world. And Bnei Brak is the #5 most densely populated city, far more densely populated than Gaza. Bnei Brak was hit by rockets this week. Can you link me to some articles that refer to "Hamas firing rockets on Bnei Brak, one of the most densely populated cities in the world"? Or "on israel, one of the most densely populated coun…

Same reason that this conflict always gets the same optics in international media — jewish lives are worth less. At first, as you don't want to believe it, you argue, you investigate, you really try to find any sane reason that while these things are happening on ground with you and your family, everybody else still sees a different picture, and then you just come to realisation that there's no other explanation for…

Indeed, there is also the discussion on "proportionality" or "civilian buildings" which never appears in any other conflict. When proportinality is discussed it is always some demand from Israel to equal number of total killed, not the actual proportion of militants killed vs. civilians. Nobody suggest that Israel should kill 10 civilians for each militant , which is the rate of Israeli killed by Gazans, one soldier and 10 civilians.

Note also the diversion from "civilians" to "civilian buildings". Since the Gaza militant are operating from positions which are not distinuishable from regular civilian building the media now complains why those position are bombed. So now Israel is not allowed to kill militant because of the way the balcony looks. The more accurate and careful Israel become the media narrow the definition of what is a military target.

Basically they demand different standards from Israel than from any other country, which is discrimination and therefore when directed to only one nation, racism.

I am not surprised, media and politicians must cater for the growing Muslim population in western contry and to the overwhelming majority in social media, a billion Muslims vs 10 million Jews. Every claim by the Muslims is multiplied and reverberating by the echo chamber. So the media just follows to cater for them, it is a bit of decision besuiness and a bit of a political belief peppered with classic racism against Jews.

If google had an option they would have been on the Muslims side with no hesitation, it is just the current laws that prevented them.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#316

Post by systematical »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #97

Not really related to the article at hand, but I've been on a bit of a Google Maps binge the past couple weeks. I learned a few interesting facts, blurry Israel being one of them. Another strange thing I found that might not be super well known (I didn't know about it) is that all GPS data in China is offset by a nonlinear psuedo-random amount. If you turn on the satellite view in Google Maps and look at various citi…

I learned earlier today that the little google street view man nopes the fuck out of Kabal.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#317

Post by fallat »

protomikron wrote: post #301
csteubs wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. It sounds a bit far-out (and it is) but we've proven the feasibility with a testing group of around 300 passengers using a multitude of different phones/altitudes/conditions/routes. GPS works in airplane mode, so we pre-cache target coordinates based on the filed flight plan and alert the passenger to hold the device to the window when overflying the target. The gyroscope is used to provide feedback on phone…

Do you have an example of the final (aerial) imagery result?

This is the real seller. No response to this is a massive red flag.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#318

Post by loceng »

anonymousDan wrote: post #249
f430 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

curious but how many alt nick accounts do you have on this website?

Huh? The parent seemed to be oblivious as to the reasons why some people would have sympathy for the Palestinians. I posted an article giving the perspective of a Palestinian in the midst of the situation.

They're avoiding engaging in critical thinking, compassion, so they can maintain their ideologue-blind hate.

You must be an anti-semite because you're having compassion for all sides. /s

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#319

Post by avip »

stormbrew wrote: post #303
flyinglizard wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s very disingenuous - there are zero territorial claims against Israel in Gaza Strip. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, dissolving all settlements in the area, back in 2005. The blockade is simply an ongoing state of war between Gaza and Israel. Gaza also borders with Egypt.

Israel recognizes no government in Gaza (neither the Palestinian Authority, which has no power there, nor Hamas, which they recognize as terrorists not a government), claims control over entry and exit to the territory of goods and people, including by sea, and claims the right to enter the territory at any time to carry out military activity. Israel also does not recognize a Palestinian state in general to be at war…

Were you using the term "claims control over entry of goods into the territory" instead of "claims their land", there would be much less to argue about.

"claims their land" sounds like Israel would like to annex Gaza and make it part of Israel - which is ridiculous and patently false.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#320

Post by myself248 »

salty_biscuits wrote: post #306
acomjean wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a civil engineer last century gps accuracy was an issue because people wanted to use gps for surveying. They came up with a system that would use 2 receivers and a radio between them to get much higher accuracies. https://www.e-education.psu.edu/natureofgeoinfo/book/export/... I think the US Government can also shut it off at a moments notice.

There are two frequencies (sometimes three) transmitted by the satellites. Using two frequencies allows certain atmospheric delays to be accurately estimated. Trouble is only one code is available for civilian applications. The trick with two receivers is to solve for the phase of secret signal (rather than decode it) by solving an integer least squares problem. This allows accuracy of the order of +/- 5cm

There are multiple civilian frequencies available now, and cheap receivers for 'em. I have a pair of F9P's running at present, and just received some GT-U12's for testing.
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