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China increases spending 500% to influence America

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Re: China increases spending 500% to influence America

#131

Post by estaseuropano »

d0mine wrote: post #107
estaseuropano wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A. You only notice it when it is done badly, not when it works. B. Repetition is everything. How many people watch RT and its wild mix of true stories (copy&pasted) and blatant propaganda and soak it up? Or vaccine conspiracies in mommy Facebook groups? Badly done propaganda repeated 1000x still works.

Could you link to examples of the copy-paste, blatant propaganda?

RT broadcasts plenty of true stories too, mostly from Reuters, AP or simply translations of European papers. The trick is to report wjatever comes up for topics you don't care about and mix in false or misleading narratives on issues where you do, e.g. in relation to Ukraine.

Rather than expect me, random stranger, to point out what is or isn't propaganda, see e.g. that the EU has an entire site largely debunking Russian propaganda as Russia uses it so frequently and effectively:

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/headlyin-and-deceptive-fiction/

Re: China increases spending 500% to influence America

#132

Post by president »

Barrin92 wrote: post #129
president wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Promotion of the world covid lockdowns. If you read the literature from the attorneys that have analyzed the timeline (Michael P Senger, Reiner Fuellmich et al), the idea of the lockdown came directly from western academics directly influenced by China.

lockdowns in responses to pandemics have been around since medieval times. The quarantine is probably the oldest social measure against disease (in fact the word derives from the Italian phrase for '40 days' because that's how long Venician ships needed to stay isolated at ports). You think the fact that people in different places came up with the idea of "people spread diseases, so people need to stay in their homes…

There's a difference between quarantining the sick and a lockdown of the general public. There has not been any serious peer-reviewed literature on locking down a population in modern history. I do not think jumping straight to a global lockdown on a whim because "China did it" is responsible and justified? If you do the research, you'll see that all the health experts in Germany who were the first to advocate for the lockdowns and PCR tests did so based on Chinese propaganda. If you go through the timeline of how the lockdown came to be, it is VERY suspect and reeks of malign Chinese influence.

Re: China increases spending 500% to influence America

#133

Post by charwalker »

scarmig wrote: post #10

Chinese propaganda is just so... Tone deaf. Give me a couple million dollars and a couple interns and I'm pretty sure I could do better than any of its existing organs. This isn't a particularly high bar: you could probably do better just by doing nothing.

Some 80 million Americans voted for and many actually think Trump won in 2020, regardless of evidence. Much of them also think the events of 1/6/21 were fake or a non issue.

Think of someone you know of average intelligence then remember that 50% of the nation is under that bar. That's a lot of voters.

Re: China increases spending 500% to influence America

#134

Post by notsureaboutpg »

max_hammer wrote: post #45
notsureaboutpg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indian propaganda is similar (I'm more familiar with it, being Indian). You can see the parallels in how both talk about their hated minorities (Uyghurs and Kashmiris/Muslims) My favorite was a recent Twitter account with a teenage profile picture, she/they pronouns, BLM, proud feminist, and TRUMP2020 all in the bio, and all it did was claim that Uyghurs are really being educated and that the decline in birth rates a…

Did you just compared treatment of Uyghurs in China with Kashmiri/Muslims in India ? Last I checked Indian govt is not holding minority in reeducation camps or removing every trace of cultural heritage.

As the other commenter noted. I did not actually say the two situations are the same. I said the way both groups were talked about by gov't propaganda Twitter handles are similar. And those are very similar.

Re: China increases spending 500% to influence America

#135

Post by SkyMarshal »

scarmig wrote: post #10

Chinese propaganda is just so... Tone deaf. Give me a couple million dollars and a couple interns and I'm pretty sure I could do better than any of its existing organs. This isn't a particularly high bar: you could probably do better just by doing nothing.

It's at least partly because the CCP allows no competition for or critical response to its propaganda, so it's never forced to get better.

Western propaganda by comparison must run the gauntlet of free speech, critical reception, and political adversaries, and as a result has become much more subtle, sophisticated, and effective [1][2].

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

[2]:http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Re: China increases spending 500% to influence America

#136

Post by courtf »

colordrops wrote: post #64
scarmig wrote: post #10

Chinese propaganda is just so... Tone deaf. Give me a couple million dollars and a couple interns and I'm pretty sure I could do better than any of its existing organs. This isn't a particularly high bar: you could probably do better just by doing nothing.

You're only noticing the obvious Chinese propaganda. They've probably got bot networks that are using AI to generate responses that you'd never distinguish as Chinese.

Absolutely. And there is still value in propaganda that is recognizable as propaganda. The meta game has as many layers as an onion, and one piece of propaganda can serve multiple purposes. Maybe a particular piece is obvious to spot, but the ultimate goal might not be so obvious. Idiots will fall for anything, but tricking the intelligent isn't as hard as we'd like to think either.

Perhaps it is possible to subtlety influence a narrative by representing it poorly in obvious propaganda, sort of like negative space a painting. And the more time people spend trying to unravel the knot of lies and half-truths, the better. The propagandists win when we are arguing about their nonsense rather than seeking truth directly.

As soon as you think you can spot the propaganda, they've got you, as they can manipulate the presentation at any time.

Re: China increases spending 500% to influence America

#137

Post by capedape »

atatatat wrote: post #89
ravenstine wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's because people such as ourselves aren't the target of said propaganda. We're a small fraction of the population. Frankly, most people are content consuming drivel of all kinds, and propaganda may actually have an influence over them. If that's the tactic, it's genius. Find the boundary where intellectuals dismiss the propaganda as ineffectual yet it still works on the 80% to some degree.

The future is the target — kids. See: TikTok.

This, and the World’s app appetite in general. I’ve noticed them up their maker game in various ways with other apps like CapCut which makes video editing very easy and is owned by the same company as Tik Tok. People made a big stink about Tik Tok’s privacy, but there are so many apps still in there with sensitive info going through PRC servers. Marginnote is another app that is so good for research on iOS. I was reading a very obscure book with it while also on the Marginnote beta. I quit testing and noticed months later, in promotional material, the book I was reading was displayed as an example in the iOS store. Could have been coincidence, but the odds are quite low. They are gaining in cool tech soft power quickly.

Re: China increases spending 500% to influence America

#138

Post by chrismcb »

dalbasal wrote: post #43
scarmig wrote: post #10

Chinese propaganda is just so... Tone deaf. Give me a couple million dollars and a couple interns and I'm pretty sure I could do better than any of its existing organs. This isn't a particularly high bar: you could probably do better just by doing nothing.

This is similar to the common sentiment people have about advertising: It's so stupid... never works on anyone I know. I don't know why companies waste their money. Meanwhile, advertising is an industry that rivals energy, shipping and such. If that's not markt proof of efficacy, IDK what is. From the advertiser side of the advertiser-consumer relationship, there's no doubt of efficacy. You open an online business. N…

Who has this sentiment about advertising? Some advertising is stupid, but in general it is not, and it obviously works.

Re: China increases spending 500% to influence America

#139

Post by colordrops »

courtf wrote: post #136
colordrops wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're only noticing the obvious Chinese propaganda. They've probably got bot networks that are using AI to generate responses that you'd never distinguish as Chinese.

Absolutely. And there is still value in propaganda that is recognizable as propaganda. The meta game has as many layers as an onion, and one piece of propaganda can serve multiple purposes. Maybe a particular piece is obvious to spot, but the ultimate goal might not be so obvious. Idiots will fall for anything, but tricking the intelligent isn't as hard as we'd like to think either. Perhaps it is possible to subtlety…

For sure, anything can be propaganda. Wouldn't be surprised if unwitting people are being used by software that corrals and funnels ideas into influencers without their knowledge, and without even full understanding by the people who wrote the software.

Re: China increases spending 500% to influence America

#140

Post by TheCoelacanth »

briantakita wrote: post #44

Aside from their hard work & valuing education, how did China rise up in modern times to get all of this social, economic, & technological power? Recent history has some interesting twists & they have had many helping hands.

It's nothing new. China has been extremely powerful for a long time.

It's just one relatively short period from the mid-19th to mid-20th century where they weren't.

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