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More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

nytimes.com

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Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#101

Post by fallingknife »

elliekelly wrote: post #31
screye wrote: post #22

Shekhar Gupta (One of India's foremost journalists and media people) did a great 30 minute analysis of this article covering who the cast members are and how this ties back into various stories from the last year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlO8sKRynBY So far, the lab origin story sounds the most plausible and has the least holes in it. Now innocent until proven guilty is a thing, but is not like the PRC would e…

Since there isn’t any evidence for either scenario I don’t think it’s at all accurate to say one possible origin is “the most plausible”. A lack of evidence for one does not give credence to the other and vice versa.

If I can't find my phone and I either left it somewhere in the house or on the Uber I took home last night, the longer I search my house and don't find it, the more likely it is that I left it on the Uber.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#102

Post by feanaro »

saas_sam wrote: post #50
bryanlarsen wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it was a lab release, it's still a natural virus and could have happened without the lab release. Without previous studies of related viruses, it would have taken multiple years to produce a vaccine.

>Even if it was a lab release, it's still a natural virus and could have happened without the lab release. That is not the assertion being made by the scientists pushing for the investigation. The assertion is that this is a chimeric virus that very much does NOT show up in nature and its lab-made qualities are precisely why it became a global pandemic. Or would you take it as pure coincidence that the first truly gl…

Was the Spanish flu also manufactured? Clearly there is such a thing as natural pandemics.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#103

Post by thereare5lights »

option wrote: post #61
Dah00n wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So guilty unless proven innocent?

if they are indeed innocent isn’t fair and unbiased investigation in their best interest?

No because there's no such thing as a fair and unbiased investigation.

Politics will be inexorably intertwined in such an investigation.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#104

Post by dang »

tomjen3 wrote: post #68
mirekrusin wrote: post #18

What's the point? Regardless if it leaked from the lab or not we have to prepare for the future the same way.

If it leaked from a lap we need to hold China responsible and ensure that no scientists ever do similar research, under pain of life in any country on earth. Whomever leaked this murdered over 1/2 the holocaust, and the total death count is only going to keep going up. The leak is a crime against humanity and should be prosecuted as one.

Please stop posting flamewar comments. You've done it repeatedly in this thread already—that's seriously not cool.

If you're posting inflamed, denunciatory rhetoric about a divisive topic, you're not using HN as intended.

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#105

Post by ChemSpider »

tshaddox wrote: post #28
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #8

As it takes longer and longer to find any evidence in nature a lab leaking is becoming the most likely source.

Hasn’t the exact same amount of time elapsed without finding any evidence of a lab leak?

Nope - no investigation for _that_ theory allowed by Beijing.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#106

Post by dang »

mirekrusin wrote: post #78
btilly wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether the type of research that might have lead to this result should be shut down to prevent similar accidents in the future. If COVID-19 was, in fact, a lab release then that's a strong argument for shutting the research down.

Adorable and naive, it's becoming too easy to do it, regardless of policies there will be somebody somewhere working on it as a weapon. [0] gives a good perspective. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQDSgBHPfY

Please don't post snarky putdowns to HN, especially not on flamewar topics. Your comment would be fine without that opening swipe.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#107

Post by [deleted] »

johncena33 wrote: post #76
mirekrusin wrote: post #18

What's the point? Regardless if it leaked from the lab or not we have to prepare for the future the same way.

I see this argument pop up quite frequently on HN with good amount of upvotes. I am guessing this type of arguments are motivated by and upvoted because of poltical and ideological ulterior motives. I think there's also something more insidious at play. In western countries lot of people have become rich by exporting manufacturing to China. If somehow it is found that COVID was a lab-leak, there'd be a huge amount of…

[deleted]

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#108

Post by Dah00n »

Any actual scientist (and not an "expert") know how long these things take. It took from 2002 to 2020 (edit: or was it 2018? I can't remember) to find a closely related SARS host (as in "not a match but close enough to point to a likely cause"). I find it very telling that we get lots of articles stating lots of stuff but not really any real scientific research papers on the source. I'm also not seeing any of these scientists volunteer to live for years in remote locations taking anal swaps of animals to actually find the cause. I believe what we are seeing are the science equivalent to armchair generals.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#109

Post by 8ytecoder »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #77
tomjen3 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If experts can make a decent argument that the lab escape is the most likely scenario, then the PRC can choose to let us have access to the data, or look 100% guilty and be treated accordingly.

No, all the choices have already been made. The data have already been destroyed. The Wuhan lab where this research was taking place also had a leadership change, and is now run by someone in the military. That happened in March or April of 2020, IIRC. Chinese researchers and journalists disappeared in that time frame (their work was deleted from online archives, their names removed from public employment listings...…

I don't think a lot of people dismissed the "lab theory" per se. The people who were coopting the theory were also the folks who called in intentional/by design. We had evidence for neither and yet suddenly it had become an excuse to yell epithets at random people on the street.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#110

Post by lovemenot »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #72
mirekrusin wrote: post #18

What's the point? Regardless if it leaked from the lab or not we have to prepare for the future the same way.

I've asked myself the same, and can only think of two reasons why they focus on if it came from a lab. (1) people like dramatic scandalous stories, in general. (2) knowing such might drive some prevention of whatever mistake lead to such from recurring.

It is certain that some series of events led to the pandemic.

There exists a class of people who, without necessarily being driven by other motivations, generally try to find out what is really going on. We call such people scientists.

No need to focus on motivation. Curiosity should be enough.

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