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More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

nytimes.com

21–30 of 382 posts

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#21

As it takes longer and longer to find any evidence in nature a lab leaking is becoming the most likely source.

That is an argument from ignorance logical fallacy. The inability to find something has no bearing on whether it exists or not and thus has no bearing on the probability of an inverted outcome.

Dark matter/energy also frequently fall into this sort of argument. There is no evidence that they do exist, which does not suggest the absence of their existence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#22
Shekhar Gupta (One of India's foremost journalists and media people) did a great 30 minute analysis of this article covering who the cast members are and how this ties back into various stories from the last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlO8sKRynBY

So far, the lab origin story sounds the most plausible and has the least holes in it. Now innocent until proven guilty is a thing, but is not like the PRC would ever agree to a fair trial.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#23
The origin of COVID-19 is going to be one of the biggest news stories in 2021-22 IMO. China's global reputation is going to take a hit. I don't think they did this intentionally. I think everyone had the best of intentions and either they found something deep in a bat cave or there was a lab mishap. I've gone down the rabbit hole on this issue. Here are some interesting links https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=R01AI110964&hl=en&as_sd... is the papers done by a NIH grant to Eco Health Alliance. This shows they were looking for new variants of Coronavirus at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7089274/pdf/114... This shows they were artificially synthesizing Coronaviruses and incubating them in monkey cells. Dr. Peter Daszak seems to be in the center of a lot of this and IMO had a conflict of interest being on the WHO COVID-19 origins report.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#24
Claiming that COVID came from a lab is pretty close to non-falsifiable, i.e. impossible to prove. I assume that if it was an accidental or intentional release of a bioweapon, all evidence would have long since been wiped clean. Making the claim that the CCP secretly created COVID is backed by zero evidence, and assuming they're even vaguely competent, all evidence to prove it would have been long since destroyed. This is a very unproductive path of inquiry,

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#25
Not surprising at all considering Wuhan Lab scientists admitted on video they were bitten by bats and they had lax to no safety standards. https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4102619

> A video released two years before the start of the Wuhan coronavirus pandemic shows Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) scientists being cavalier toward protective equipment and being bitten by bats that carry deadly viruses such as SARS, demonstrating a lax safety culture in the lab.

> On Dec. 29, 2017, Chinese state-run TV released a video designed to showcase Shi Zhengli, (石正麗), also known as "Bat Woman," and her team of scientists at the WIV in their quest to find the origin of SARS. Despite the fact that the scientists work in a biosafety level 4 lab, they show a shocking disregard for safety when handling potentially infectious bats both in the wild and in the lab.

> From 4:45 to 4:56, a scientist can be seen holding a bat with his bare hands. Team members from 7:44 to 7:50 can be seen collecting potentially highly infectious bat feces while wearing short sleeves and shorts and with no noticeable personal protective equipment (PPE) other than gloves.

> Virus researcher Cui Jie (崔杰) relates his experiences of being bitten from 8:47 to 8:50. He said that the bat's fangs went right through his glove, which was likely nitrile. He described the feeling as "like being jabbed with a needle." The video then cuts to a person's limb showing swelling after a bat bite.

That provides a plausible origin scenario of the pandemic: In October 2019, a researcher at the Wuhan Lab was bitten by a bat, got infected (asymptomatically), went home and unknowingly infected other people in the community, and the virus spread from there.

Sadly, I don't think we'll ever know what happened. Those who were directly involved with the early stage of the outbreak will never speak up, because Beijing issued a complete gag order on what happened. Anyone that speaks about the early stages of the pandemic be charged with espionage, and if found guilty, they can receive the death penalty. https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/11/9833532bb925-chin...

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#26

Part of me thinks that we should almost not waste the time to find out. Spend the effort on preparing for the next one, by improving air filtration etc. Politics is too deeply entrenched, it will be an impossibility to uncover the truth.

What is sad is that these ideas were dismissed as crackpotish or racist until now.

Was the idea that we should inquire about the virus’ origin dismissed as such, or just the idea that there is already strong evidence of any particular origin story?

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#27

What's the point? Regardless if it leaked from the lab or not we have to prepare for the future the same way.

The question is whether the type of research that might have lead to this result should be shut down to prevent similar accidents in the future.

If COVID-19 was, in fact, a lab release then that's a strong argument for shutting the research down.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#29
What's the point? After reading all the evidence, people such as myself firmly believe that it came from the Wuhan lab. Nothing the inquiry will come up with convince me otherwise. It's pretty obvious once you read all of the unbiased articles that show that months earlier, the same research facilities and scientists were touting their research in gain-of-function in bat coronaviruses. I mean come on!

Bureacracies like WHO will NEVER EVER say that it came from a Chinese lab. The "inquiry" will say that it's unlikely and try to bury the issue, and then it will just keep popping its head out in news articles that get ultimately ignored.

Re: More Scientists Urge Broad Inquiry into Coronavirus Origins

#30

Claiming that COVID came from a lab is pretty close to non-falsifiable, i.e. impossible to prove. I assume that if it was an accidental or intentional release of a bioweapon, all evidence would have long since been wiped clean. Making the claim that the CCP secretly created COVID is backed by zero evidence, and assuming they're even vaguely competent, all evidence to prove it would have been long since destroyed. Thi…

It's also possible that it was an accidental lab leak. But yes, its going to be next to impossible to prove.
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