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Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

zenhabits.net

11–20 of 30 posts

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#11
> What’s a life without expectations like? It means you accept reality as it is

Actually no.

The fact that some expectations don't match reality does not imply that there aren't any expectations that match reality.

Realistic expectations seem quite reasonable and useful.

Note that realistic doesn't have anything to do with your preferences.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#12
This is a fine way to live.

But it falls apart when you mix in other people. Because, if other people are emotionally immature (and most people are) they'll perceive you as weak, and limit your opportunities because you're not posturing as a chest-thumping blowhard. Thus, you too have to speak the language of power while knowing full well that you don't buy into it. I can think of nothing more boring than taking yourself seriously.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#13
post #7

I would like to toss the author of this paean to passivity into the ocean. Yes, sure, clinging on to certain kinds of unrealistic expectations, in certain contexts (particularly personal relationships), can be fatal. But this is a truism that any idiot could tell you - and in this case the post is generalized to the point of meaninglessness. Suppose you encounter someone who is openly racist, dishonest or technically…

> philosophize their way to vapidity and numbness

I've often felt that the Buddhist "no desires" and "no mind" concepts are akin to the trivial solution in polynomials or vector math: set everything to 0!

That it's one solution does not mean there are not other, non-zero solutions.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#14
post #7

I would like to toss the author of this paean to passivity into the ocean. Yes, sure, clinging on to certain kinds of unrealistic expectations, in certain contexts (particularly personal relationships), can be fatal. But this is a truism that any idiot could tell you - and in this case the post is generalized to the point of meaninglessness. Suppose you encounter someone who is openly racist, dishonest or technically…

I think this method of thinking does have that pitfall, but it does have a tweak that I find useful.

You can throw away expectations about how things are, without stopping work on making things better. Anger is not useful without action.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#15

This is a fine way to live. But it falls apart when you mix in other people. Because, if other people are emotionally immature (and most people are) they'll perceive you as weak, and limit your opportunities because you're not posturing as a chest-thumping blowhard. Thus, you too have to speak the language of power while knowing full well that you don't buy into it. I can think of nothing more boring than taking your…

Not sure why this was downvoted. I'd hope to find real solutions to practicing this sort of viewpoint within social systems that value power.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#17
Living with no expectations is an exceedingly dull, soul-sucking way to live. I know, I've tried it.

Some expectations are a good thing. Just let go of the bad ones, or learn how to let go if an expectation is not met. You don't have to get upset when expectations are not met.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#18
post #9
post #7

I would like to toss the author of this paean to passivity into the ocean. Yes, sure, clinging on to certain kinds of unrealistic expectations, in certain contexts (particularly personal relationships), can be fatal. But this is a truism that any idiot could tell you - and in this case the post is generalized to the point of meaninglessness. Suppose you encounter someone who is openly racist, dishonest or technically…

I had a lot of trouble with this aspect too and your logic is perfectly valid but your assumptions are missing a key piece. Part of accepting things the way they are is understanding that you are an integral part of the world. This implies that not only do you have the power to influence it but that doing so is both inescapable and your duty. Telling someone that they are ignorant or incompetent is far more effective…

You have broadened my thinking on this issue, but I'm not convinced that being "attached" to the result of an intervention is necessarily harmful (let alone something that makes me a dictator!). There are many ways to positively accommodate our natural emotional responses to things being other then we would passionately want them to be, into our continued efforts to make those things so. I agree with your comments on leadership (although I can think of some contrary examples), but leadership is just one area informed by expectation.

I think I am guilty of further polarizing what was presented as a false dichotomy in the first place. It is not the case that either we live a life full of expectations that poison us when they are not met; or that we must be devoid of expectation and experience all outcomes with equanimity. Shades of grey predominate.

That was really my beef with the article: its absolutism. Life requires a repertoire of attitudes and responses. It is futile and naive to say we must always adopt a principle of throwing all our expectations away. It is not so different from saying that the culture and technology we treasure could have been more painlessly attained in a world of wandering sadhus.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#19

Living with no expectations is an exceedingly dull, soul-sucking way to live. I know, I've tried it. Some expectations are a good thing. Just let go of the bad ones, or learn how to let go if an expectation is not met. You don't have to get upset when expectations are not met.

Goals are a good think. Faith in your own ability to achieve your goals is good. Spending time dreaming about outcomes and then wasting time wishing the real outcomes did not happen and wishing things had been different and that you had done something different ... that's all counterproductive.

Zen is all about cutting out the BS in your mind. Living inside your dreams about what should be, what should happen and what should have happened is all bad thinking. It's illogical.

Zen helps become less wrong.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#20
post #7

I would like to toss the author of this paean to passivity into the ocean. Yes, sure, clinging on to certain kinds of unrealistic expectations, in certain contexts (particularly personal relationships), can be fatal. But this is a truism that any idiot could tell you - and in this case the post is generalized to the point of meaninglessness. Suppose you encounter someone who is openly racist, dishonest or technically…

> philosophize their way to vapidity and numbness I've often felt that the Buddhist "no desires" and "no mind" concepts are akin to the trivial solution in polynomials or vector math: set everything to 0! That it's one solution does not mean there are not other, non-zero solutions.

You've fallen into the classic trap: Buddhism does not espouse nihilism (the negation of all things),

Buddhism simply asserts that what you think is your reality, isn't. That's not to say that NOTHING is real or that you don't experience something, it's to say what you put stock in is very much not worth doing so.

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