What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#61

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Sat, Aug 09, 2008, 12:03 AM UTC

shard wrote: post #57

hugh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the same book. It was compulsory for a management class I was doing. A lot of people rave about how great it is, but personally I couldn't quite overcome the niggling voice of shame in the back of my head that said "You're reading a self-help book". I felt dirty afterwards, and I stored the book in a drawer rather than on my bookshelf. It's probably not really a bad book, though.

Why feel shame at reading a book which improves your skills? Would you feel shame after reading a startup self-help book such as "Getting Real"?

I think it's a techie thing. I took a course at work about influence and negotiation and the reaction of some people I was talking to (a few scientists) was "oh, you're taking that class on manipulating people!" complete with rolled eyeballs. Actually of all the classes I've taken at work, that was one of the most useful.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#62

Post by shard » Sat, Aug 09, 2008, 6:51 PM UTC

froo wrote: post #58

shard wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everything is open to bargaining, it's just a matter of whether it's worth your time. If you don't bargain, you are automatically allowing the other person to steal your money. You bet I bargained when I bought my house, when I bought my car. I've seen bargaining even in department stores, a woman haggling down the price of Coach bags in Macy's by offering to buy several at once. She got the discount. Jus…

In a way it's kind of like dating You mean, if you're not careful about how you do it, you might end up screwed and coming home with something that you didn't want? :) (sorry, had to be said)

Of course. No risk, no reward. No guts, no glory.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#63

Post by shard » Sat, Aug 09, 2008, 6:57 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #61

shard wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why feel shame at reading a book which improves your skills? Would you feel shame after reading a startup self-help book such as "Getting Real"?

I think it's a techie thing. I took a course at work about influence and negotiation and the reaction of some people I was talking to (a few scientists) was "oh, you're taking that class on manipulating people!" complete with rolled eyeballs. Actually of all the classes I've taken at work, that was one of the most useful.

The answer to that is obviously: Yes, I prefer to know when and how I'm being manipulated, rather than walk around being blind to my strings being pulled.

I've come across the same reaction amongst my techie friends as well. I don't understand why so many smart people have such a big blindspot about this issue.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#64

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Sat, Aug 09, 2008, 7:18 PM UTC

shard wrote: post #63

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a techie thing. I took a course at work about influence and negotiation and the reaction of some people I was talking to (a few scientists) was "oh, you're taking that class on manipulating people!" complete with rolled eyeballs. Actually of all the classes I've taken at work, that was one of the most useful.

The answer to that is obviously: Yes, I prefer to know when and how I'm being manipulated, rather than walk around being blind to my strings being pulled. I've come across the same reaction amongst my techie friends as well. I don't understand why so many smart people have such a big blindspot about this issue.

Sigh! There is a huge difference between manipulating someone and negotiating to get what you want. The first implies control, generally without their consent. The latter is all about understanding their needs (which are often emotional and may require asking probing questions, reading body language, making that person comfortable etc) and finding out how you can come to a consensus that satisfies both parties.

The problem I was alluding to is that technical people seem to think that using anything other than cold, hard facts to come to terms is "manipulative." And quite simply, the world doesn't work that way.

[edit] Now that I re-read your reply, I think I took it completely the wrong way :-) Sorry.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#65

Post by Eliezer » Sat, Aug 09, 2008, 7:35 PM UTC

I own three copies of Cialdini's Influence, one for myself and two to loan out.

Re: What I Learned Buying a Rug in Turkey

#66

Post by xiaoma » Sun, Aug 10, 2008, 10:35 AM UTC

greyman wrote: post #19

I must confess that I very much hate bargaining. I can't overcome the feeling that the other person tries to steal my money, and now I have to be careful and defend myself to reduce the damage. Then, I will end up with a stuff I don't really need. Regarding the Turkey story, I just would not follow the man no matter what. I can't help, but persuasion doesn't work on me - the more other person tries to persuade me, th…

Bargaining is a frictional cost, and is best avoided for anything except the very large ticket items.

Yes, the seller and the buyer both want the best price they can get on any given transaction. However, the time and energy required to get that price through haggling are often worth far more than the difference in purchase price. When buying or selling a house, I'll haggle, but I don't want to waste my life haggling over each rug.

I suspect that as Turkey develops economically, most people there won't want to, either. Here in Taiwan, this sort bargaining is far, far less common than it used to be.