Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss • Hacker News Board

Re: Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss

#31

Post by throwaway8581 » Mon, May 17, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

shoto_io wrote: post #2

Ok, I am going to be brutally honest here. Some may not like it. Micromanaging is complicated. When I was in a leadership position I was the happiest boss when I could let people just do their thing and come back with great results and we'd be all happy. And that's how I loved working with my bosses before as well. But then again, I had some employees I had to micromanage. I really, really abhorred it. But there was…

Some people are not self-driven but can still do good work if subjected to stronger authority. It's ultimately a business decision as to whether it's worth providing that kind of authority.

But note that to the extent that someone suffers from ADHD and just needs a stronger hand from their manager as an accommodation in order to be productive, you might be legally required to give it to them.

Re: Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss

#32

Post by itg » Mon, May 17, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

My worst experience was with a manager who had no software development background. He had about 8 years of project and product management and was assigned to lead a team of 12 developers on a new initiative. Everything had to be implemented his way that he read on some blog/article even though the team would show why it doesn't apply to our use case.

Not surprisingly, people quickly started leaving one by one (including myself) and eventually his team was merged with another and he was let go. A micromanaging boss is bad, an incompetent micromanaging boss is a disaster.

Re: Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss

#33

Post by amrox » Mon, May 17, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

petee wrote: post #29

shoto_io wrote: post #2

Ok, I am going to be brutally honest here. Some may not like it. Micromanaging is complicated. When I was in a leadership position I was the happiest boss when I could let people just do their thing and come back with great results and we'd be all happy. And that's how I loved working with my bosses before as well. But then again, I had some employees I had to micromanage. I really, really abhorred it. But there was…

I read a good book about management recently that pretty much defined the need for micromanagement as either lack of training, and/or lack of clear expectations and appropriate resolution when those expectations are broken. The sum of it is an employee that knows the right way, and is given the freedom to do that will make the correct choices, if they fail occasionally that's ok. If they can't be trained, or refused…

I think the book is called "Turn the Ship Around"

Re: Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss

#34

Post by dcolkitt » Mon, May 17, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

petee wrote: post #29

shoto_io wrote: post #2

Ok, I am going to be brutally honest here. Some may not like it. Micromanaging is complicated. When I was in a leadership position I was the happiest boss when I could let people just do their thing and come back with great results and we'd be all happy. And that's how I loved working with my bosses before as well. But then again, I had some employees I had to micromanage. I really, really abhorred it. But there was…

I read a good book about management recently that pretty much defined the need for micromanagement as either lack of training, and/or lack of clear expectations and appropriate resolution when those expectations are broken. The sum of it is an employee that knows the right way, and is given the freedom to do that will make the correct choices, if they fail occasionally that's ok. If they can't be trained, or refused…

I mostly agree with you. But there are many many reasons why these constraints may still apply, at least in the short term. Ideally you want everyone to be competent enough at their role to need minimal management. But the reality is that often times you'll find yourself in a situation where that's not true. And it's pretty rare when you just have the freedom to bring everything to a halt to start from scratch.

Re: Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss

#35

Post by jbverschoor » Mon, May 17, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

shoto_io wrote: post #2

Ok, I am going to be brutally honest here. Some may not like it. Micromanaging is complicated. When I was in a leadership position I was the happiest boss when I could let people just do their thing and come back with great results and we'd be all happy. And that's how I loved working with my bosses before as well. But then again, I had some employees I had to micromanage. I really, really abhorred it. But there was…

> But before you fire people, you have to invest to be absolutely sure you're doing the right thing.

It's the right thing to fire them. For you and for them. Wrong match, end of story.

Could be they lack experience or something else, but it might just as well be you lacking clear goals etc. Either way, wrong match, end of story.

Re: Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss

#36

Post by meowfly » Mon, May 17, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

the_arun wrote: post #7

I think "Trust" is the primary reason for Micromanaging. If a person doesn't trust their subordinates they try to micromanage. This just doesn't happen at work, at home as well (eg. between parents & kids).

If someone doesn't "trust" their team, I think they should also look inward at their own expectations. I've definitely seen micromanagers who should be able to trust their team but due to their own sense of pride/narcissism/whatever you want to call it, they believe they need to get personally involved.

This is a recurring joke in design, where a CEO hires a designer only to throw away all their feedback and build something hideous.

Re: Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss

#37

Post by mixedCase » Mon, May 17, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #10

ljm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The truth is probably that I should have gotten into more serious talks with those employees instead. Did you take the micromanaging approach because you didn't open a channel for feedback between you and the team? Micromanagement is one thing: a lack of trust. You micromanage because you don't trust, or maybe they don't trust either. So, what do you do to build up trust? You talk. Note that this is different to ac…

> So, what do you do to build up trust? You talk. What do you do when talking leads to them saying "I understand, next time I'll either get it done faster, or let you know when I realize it's gonna slip" but then what actually happens is that it slips without them giving you any updates again after all? Repeatedly? Talking doesn't build trust when the actions don't match the talk.

It depends on whether your demands are reasonable or not if it's going to work, but:

If there's a persistent lack of communication when it should've been known that a deadline is not going to be met or is at least going to be close, set-up a PIP where you lay down a checklist to follow at the start/end of the day of behaviors you expect regarding communication.

If that doesn't help, then yes, firing is the correct response, not permanent micromanagement.

This is all under the generous assumption that your deadlines are actually very important in the business and plans will have to be shifted if they're not met because of a harsh business reality. Otherwise it's your fault for allowing the cost of deadlines to be incurred in a team where all they will do is hinder morale, add bureaucracy and reduce productivity.

Re: Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss

#38

Post by rantwasp » Mon, May 17, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #27

shoto_io wrote: post #2

Ok, I am going to be brutally honest here. Some may not like it. Micromanaging is complicated. When I was in a leadership position I was the happiest boss when I could let people just do their thing and come back with great results and we'd be all happy. And that's how I loved working with my bosses before as well. But then again, I had some employees I had to micromanage. I really, really abhorred it. But there was…

>But before you fire people, you have to invest to be absolutely sure you're doing the right thing. I disagree. It's like parents who spend all their time on the problem child, and then the children who are doing well become bitter and resentful. You're neglecting the rest of the team for one individual, who they all probably see is problematic, which is not a good way to run a team.

so fire the underperforming kids? got it

Re: Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss

#39

Post by goodpoint » Mon, May 17, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

shoto_io wrote: post #2

Ok, I am going to be brutally honest here. Some may not like it. Micromanaging is complicated. When I was in a leadership position I was the happiest boss when I could let people just do their thing and come back with great results and we'd be all happy. And that's how I loved working with my bosses before as well. But then again, I had some employees I had to micromanage. I really, really abhorred it. But there was…

> I had to micromanage

And yet...

> The truth is probably that I should have gotten into more serious talks with those employees instead.

There you go. Very often employees are unproductive because they are unhappy.

> As an employee, try to be as a reflective person as you ask your boss to be one

It's the people-manager job to understand people. It's not the employee's job or skillset.

Re: Way to Deal with a Micromanaging Boss

#40

Post by Mc91 » Mon, May 17, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

shoto_io wrote: post #2

Ok, I am going to be brutally honest here. Some may not like it. Micromanaging is complicated. When I was in a leadership position I was the happiest boss when I could let people just do their thing and come back with great results and we'd be all happy. And that's how I loved working with my bosses before as well. But then again, I had some employees I had to micromanage. I really, really abhorred it. But there was…

On the other hand, I have been in positions where I and the team delivered spectacular results year after year, and I am not micro-managed, and then my excellent boss leaves for greener pastures, and suddenly a new much worse boss comes in and begins micromanaging me.

Fellow workers, the boss and management is not looking out for your interest, the default is they're looking out for their interest. Your best hope is once in a while to find a "good" boss who is not 100% on board with the investors and is willing to split the difference. If you're on the top half of people in your position in terms of skills, if you're willing to do what reasonably needs to be done within 40 hours a week, then the boss is who needs to be questioned, not yourself - you are the one who is doing the work and creating the wealth for the company.