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Feeling like a pariah, even when you’re not

statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu

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Re: Feeling like a pariah, even when you’re not

#21

Post by [deleted] »

teachingassist wrote: post #19
linuxftw wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many scientists actively speak out about the strong biases and conflicts of interest in their respective industries. The media universally lambasts them as crackpots. Couple that with the fact that most people don't feel comfortable with the topic of 'science,' they choose to mentally defer any interpretation of evidence/facts to some authority, it's incredibly easy to mislead the population.

Only speaking against popular biases and conflicts of interest often is crackpot - it represents a failure to recognise your own biases and conflicts of interests. You can present an alternative view without accusing other people of bias.

[deleted]

Re: Feeling like a pariah, even when you’re not

#22

Post by tnzm »

bittercynic wrote: post #18
Razengan wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was the same person before the rejection as I am after it. There is nothing changing in reality - only my own view, my own feelings. This is all mostly self-inflicted. The reality being that members of my own species choose not to be with me or work with me. I am unwelcome. Repeat that many times over many years.

_Some_ members. If every member of our species choose not to be with or work with you it would be a major problem, but probably not an insoluble one.

Yep just kill him and then there's nobody to have that problem. /s

Re: Feeling like a pariah, even when you’re not

#23

Post by PeterisP »

zaphar wrote: post #20
Razengan wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was the same person before the rejection as I am after it. There is nothing changing in reality - only my own view, my own feelings. This is all mostly self-inflicted. The reality being that members of my own species choose not to be with me or work with me. I am unwelcome. Repeat that many times over many years.

That is a depressing perspective. Your self-worth should not be dependent on someone else's image of you. It should be based on the facts of your own performance. You can't fix or improve other people. You can only improve your own performance. Focus on improving yourself and be satisfied with that. Anything else is a path to disappointment.

You can focus on improving your own performance or you can focus on improving your relationships with a group; and the latter can often be more effective than the former, as your effectiveness and ability to change things is not solely determined by your own performance but often by social factors.

Re: Feeling like a pariah, even when you’re not

#24

Post by cratermoon »

benjaminjosephw wrote: post #2

Social groups, whether in academia, industry, civil society, or anywhere else are never as able to maintain the level of objectivity they think they possess. Group think isn't (just) a structural failure but a intractable bias all human communities face simply because they are made up of humans. I think there is an implicit belief in the scientific and technology communities that rational investigation can be free fr…

All of the above applies to journalism as well, and is something that any media-savvy person will keep in mind at all times. Whenever I see someone expressing an opinion that this or that source is biased, or that there is such a thing as an unbiased source, I do a mental face-palm. The best propaganda and misinformation is framed to appear unbiased to its audience.

Re: Feeling like a pariah, even when you’re not

#25

Post by linuxftw »

teachingassist wrote: post #19
linuxftw wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many scientists actively speak out about the strong biases and conflicts of interest in their respective industries. The media universally lambasts them as crackpots. Couple that with the fact that most people don't feel comfortable with the topic of 'science,' they choose to mentally defer any interpretation of evidence/facts to some authority, it's incredibly easy to mislead the population.

Only speaking against popular biases and conflicts of interest often is crackpot - it represents a failure to recognise your own biases and conflicts of interests. You can present an alternative view without accusing other people of bias.

> You can present an alternative view without accusing other people of bias.

Maybe at some point in the distant past. It's all industry shills now.

Re: Feeling like a pariah, even when you’re not

#26

Post by cratermoon »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #12
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #10

I worked in academia a few years, and moved to industry during my PhD (which I completed). There were strong political jousts, like everywhere else. This was unfortunately coupled to an inherent lack of money (and low salaries), and enormous egos that were growing as people were getting higher diplomas or positions. This is one of the reasons that made me left because I saw that either I jump into the cage and bite m…

> There were strong political jousts, like everywhere else. This was unfortunately coupled to an inherent lack of money (and low salaries), and enormous egos that were growing as people were getting higher diplomas or positions Sayre's Law: " 'In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake.' By way of corollary, it adds: 'That is why academic politics are so bitt…

Wasn't there an adage going around that when something like "lock a group up people in a room with a ham sandwich and by the end of a day they'll be arguing about which side of the sandwich is best"?

Re: Feeling like a pariah, even when you’re not

#27

Post by dctoedt »

JackFr wrote: post #16
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #10

I worked in academia a few years, and moved to industry during my PhD (which I completed). There were strong political jousts, like everywhere else. This was unfortunately coupled to an inherent lack of money (and low salaries), and enormous egos that were growing as people were getting higher diplomas or positions. This is one of the reasons that made me left because I saw that either I jump into the cage and bite m…

“The reason that university politics is so vicious is because stakes are so small” ― Henry Kissinger

Yes - Sayle's Law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law

Re: Feeling like a pariah, even when you’re not

#28

Post by agumonkey »

lbhdc wrote: post #11
mannykannot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not clear to me whether you are suggesting the issue is merely one of how to give and receive justified criticism. I see the greater issue as one of the use of marginal, overblown or simply unjustified criticism and innuendo to isolate people and undermine reputations. We all know it happens.

I have worked in a few departments where this has happened. It seemed that it was a means used by a group of engineers to get rid of other engineers they didn't see as "one of them".

Did this happen as a last resort after more noble attempt failed ? Or was it the first reflex of the group ?

Also was the other person really unfriendly or detrimental to the group or was it somehow subjective/ego driven (threatened by a newcomer) ?

Re: Feeling like a pariah, even when you’re not

#30

Post by bittercynic »

tnzm wrote: post #22
bittercynic wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_Some_ members. If every member of our species choose not to be with or work with you it would be a major problem, but probably not an insoluble one.

Yep just kill him and then there's nobody to have that problem. /s

Damn, how about join a casual sports league or volunteer at Habitat or some kind of group sessions. Anything to get social experience.
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