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TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

reuters.com

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Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#491

Post by kragen »

giardini wrote: post #121
kragen wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PRC is a nuclear power. In the event of a full-blown war there will be no fabs in the US, foreign-owned or otherwise.

Do you really believe China has enough nukes to take out most of the USA's infrastructure? Fab facilities would be waaaay down the list of targets. China's goal has been to maintain a nuclear deterrent (make it not worthwhile to strike China) rather than an offensive capability. if nukes flew then China would likely fragment into many separate countries: its centralized command structure would be destroyed and local…

Responding to this pathetic trolling was a mistake: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27174525 and I would have known better if I'd looked at giardini's posting and commenting history: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27174521

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#492

Post by mannerheim »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #488
mannerheim wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russians can't even make their own fleet move. https://www.businessinsider.com/tug-sailing-with-russian-shi...

The carrier is moving, isn't it? Lack of money to maintain their army has been a recurring issue since the fall of the USSR. My question still remains to have a realistic POV: > What was the tech? Why was it that important?

I mean, if you consider being pulled by a tugboat to be moving.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#493

Post by will4274 »

throwaway4good wrote: post #444
will4274 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all there is reason why it is called "Republic of China". Surely one of those reasons is that if they changed the name, the "People's Republic of China" would invade?

It is because the founders of the nation saw themselves as Chinese and the rightful rulers of all of China. If you are Taiwanese and you trace family back to before 1949, your family is likely to be somewhere in China. As for the business community, most of Taiwan’s trade is with the mainland. Probably explains why it is more sympathetic.

Many Taiwanese would tell you, it was for the reason you say, back in 1949, but today, it is for the reason I said.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#494

Post by account42 »

Laforet wrote: post #398
cm2187 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the main problem at the moment for fabs in Taiwan is water shortages. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/TSMC-ta...

TSMC reportedly uses over 50 million tonnes of water per year, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the annual 12 billion tonnes consumed by agriculture. https://highscope.ch.ntu.edu.tw/wordpress/?p=42837 In any case, the current drought is likely to ease at some point but the electricity problem is only going to get worse.

> the electricity problem is only going to get worse.

That's not a given at all - Taiwan could just build more nuclear power plants if they wanted.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#495

Post by pas »

lttlrck wrote: post #452
pas wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSMC buys their next gen stuff from ASML (Netherlands), so the problem is not knowledge transfer, it's good old manufacturing and scaling up. (And that means labor, and traditionally labor laws in the Members States meant that offshoring large scale production was the smart choice ... strategic importance or not, if it doesn't make sense economically and business-wise, then that means it'll be instantly worthless str…

The buy a tool from ASML. TSMC built up the knowledge to use that tool, to achieve these processes, themselves. Knowledge transfer is key.

I'd say the working relationship is the important thing. (yaay, synergy!)

Naturally TSMC knows their tools and processes, works with product companies (nvidia, AMD, Qualcomm) to actually implement their design on the target process node. And at the same time works with the various tool vendors to refine the process, the tools themselves. But as lately we saw it's increasingly impossible to do it "alone", both Intel and Samsung works with many-many vendors. (Intel - among others - funded the push for EUV by buying ASML equity in 2012.)

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#496

Post by vineyardmike »

supergirl wrote: post #294
vineyardmike wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSMC is also likely saving their best tech for where they can control it the best and shop it around the best. The US has lots of high tech customers (Apple, Qualcomm, AMD even Intel) who are willing to pay top price for supply. Add in the US and their heavy national security needs/desire/politics and of course the energy and money is obvious for good fabs in the US. England has some semiconductor industry and so doe…

is TSMC doing anything innovative themselves? I thought they just purchase the machines or at least specs from ASML, a Dutch company. So the "best tech" is designed in EU anyway.

Well then why isn't the tech executed in EU? If it was about being in Asia, then why are they bringing it to the US?

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#497

Post by giardini »

kragen wrote: post #491
giardini wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe China has enough nukes to take out most of the USA's infrastructure? Fab facilities would be waaaay down the list of targets. China's goal has been to maintain a nuclear deterrent (make it not worthwhile to strike China) rather than an offensive capability. if nukes flew then China would likely fragment into many separate countries: its centralized command structure would be destroyed and local…

Responding to this pathetic trolling was a mistake: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27174525 and I would have known better if I'd looked at giardini's posting and commenting history: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27174521

Bad News: Engaging kragen in plain conversation was my error. Had I known he would prove a jackass (e.g., here he using "cancel culture" methods to smear my statements on this thread by suggesting readers pause to read all my past posts on HN!) I would have never posted on this thread.

But as his own internet posting history shows, he seems quick to anger and, while quite well-schooled in some respects, he is unable to recognize that there's something seriously inherently flawed in his thought processes. And before that flaw, whatever it is, can fully reveal itself, he goes off screaming "troll!".

I'm not in bad company, apparently kragen also said some very bad things about Eric Naggum, although kragen raged after Naggum died (wish he'd done the same for me, but...) And the comparison is unfair in that I'm neither so talented nor so demanding as Naggum was. And I love a good laugh.

Good News: this is the first such person I've met on HN so I think such is a rarity.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#498

Post by giardini »

kragen wrote: post #490
giardini wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concede to you, O Master, that my thoughts are to Yours, as mere raindrops are to the Oceans of the World. Furthermore, as a token of our discussion, I offer this simple link so that you might someday smoke the Peace Pipe and Bury the Hatchet: http://www.todayifoundout.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/smo... - - - Related article: http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/05/origin-expre...

If I'd realized you were just trolling from the beginning, I probably wouldn't have bothered responding to you. I thought you were just uninformed, but I see that wasn't the problem.

Well, I wasn't trolling at all: I tossed out a joke after you ran off the rails.

kragen says>" I thought you were just uninformed, but I see that wasn't the problem."*

Nope.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#499

Post by Laforet »

account42 wrote: post #494
Laforet wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSMC reportedly uses over 50 million tonnes of water per year, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the annual 12 billion tonnes consumed by agriculture. https://highscope.ch.ntu.edu.tw/wordpress/?p=42837 In any case, the current drought is likely to ease at some point but the electricity problem is only going to get worse.

> the electricity problem is only going to get worse. That's not a given at all - Taiwan could just build more nuclear power plants if they wanted.

Taiwan is geologically active and as a result there are few viable locations to build a nuclear power plant.

Ironically, the Taipei-Hsinchu metropolitan area is on very solid ground and would have been perfect for a nuclear power station if it weren't so heavily populated.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#500

Post by epistasis »

neonological wrote: post #453
epistasis wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling that further discussion will not be productive, as your other posts do not contain hints of what you say in this comment, and this comment is a big change in what you were saying before in comments. I'm not sure why California's in-migration of the highly educated with high incomes, and out-migration of less educated folks counts as a brain drain. I'm not sure why you insist on an economic downturn i…

You know what would be productive? Statistical numbers. You cannot deny the productiveness of real factual numbers. The brain drain consists of measurable negative population growth. More people moving out then people coming in, in aggregate. Additionally the real numbers show that California natives are the ones that are mostly leaving. This. Is. A. Statistical. Number. If negative population continues by raw logic…

I know this is not worth revising, but you didn't cite any statistics.

California is not losing population, it's just growing slower than the rest of the country. There is no "brain drain," as those moving in have higher education than those leaving. International immigration, in particular, is making up for the domestic net out-migration:

https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265

You haven't cited a single number, or a single fact. You accuse me of bias, but shift your phrasing and points on nearly every comment. Your only support is a YouTube video that is heavy on propaganda techniques but says nothing of substance for the first third.

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