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CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

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Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#181

Post by ex_amazon_sde »

nsonha wrote: post #141
hardwaresofton wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from but I can't really agree that incentivizing raw labor is the way to get there (to a more equitable outcome for labor). The capital/labor struggle is a deep deep topic, but I think we can say at this point that with automation becoming increasingly common, labor is losing it's leg to stand on. We're going to get a lot farther by reining in capitalism than trying to return to piece…

> I can't really agree that incentivizing raw labor I read history books, I'm not that stupid. The reason I bring this up is a couple of comments up you said software creates tremendous value, I guess this is true for many other types of innovations too. You proceeded to say software developers need to be paid proportionate to that value and I disagree there. If we look at salary as incentive I would say that softwar…

> software creates tremendous value

According to what metric? I suspect most of the stellar SV salaries come from the economic model.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#182

Post by hardwaresofton »

imtringued wrote: post #152
hardwaresofton wrote: post #50

Some context on the japanese job market from what I've seen: - The entire japanese job market's wages are depressed[0] - In 2019, pressure had to come from the PM (not the local unions) to raise the minimum wage to 1000 yen/hour (~$9/hour)[1] - Engineers are underpaid here, possibly more so than the EU in relation to the US. This is amplified for japanese companies (whether "black"[1] or not) - With nationalized heal…

>BOJ's enormous purse and very active involvement The BOJ is very inactive. Yes, the numbers are big but that money hasn't entered the economy.

Claiming that the BOJ is inactive is either an indicator that you're an insider and I have no idea what I'm talking about (as an outsider am bamboozled by the magic trick/strong jawbones of the BOJ), or that you have no idea what you're talking about (with no disrespect).

I don't mean to sound combative but this is such an extreme statement (in my view) that I'm eager to find which scenario is true. The BOJ is so active that we talk about the progression of the US in terms of "japanification" -- as in the US is going somewhere (in monetary policy) japan has already been. ZIRP, extended forever-QE, messing with whatever rates they needed to, buying JGBs, buying stocks. BOJ is not an inactive central banking institution. This doesn't even take into account the borderline conspiracy theories floating around on the way the BOJ exerts control(summed up by Princes of the Yen[0]).

Could you explain a little more about why you think the BOJ's actions in the last like... 3 decades have somehow not "entered" the economy (which I don't think is synonymous with not affecting the economy)?

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Ac7ap_MAY

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#183

Post by nicoburns »

rurounijones wrote: post #46
NalNezumi wrote: post #35

While establishing a "cause & effect" here seems very hard, from my personal experience working in software field in Japan, I think the winning concept here is actually the combination of removing middleman and paying good salaries. Japan is very very behind in IT/digitalization compared to most western countries. This doesn't just mean it's behind in product portfolio and quality, but that perception of software eng…

As a further example: In my last full-on japanese company it was basically impossible to find any developer with more than 3 years experience by accidental design because: 1: No applicants studied computer science in university so they started learning when they joined the company and were assigned a development role. 2: After 3 years they they got promoted to a "manager" level role and stopped doing development. The…

> 2: After 3 years they they got promoted to a "manager" level role and stopped doing development. There was no concept of junior developer -> developer -> senior developer progression. If you wanted promotion you went from developer -> manager; it was the same for sysadmins. Their IT and development suffered heavily for it.

Do you have any insight into how this works in Japanese companies that do more traditional engineering? I find it hard to believe that companies like Toyota have no senior engineers.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#184

Post by wsc981 »

yulaow wrote: post #149
NalNezumi wrote: post #35

While establishing a "cause & effect" here seems very hard, from my personal experience working in software field in Japan, I think the winning concept here is actually the combination of removing middleman and paying good salaries. Japan is very very behind in IT/digitalization compared to most western countries. This doesn't just mean it's behind in product portfolio and quality, but that perception of software eng…

Do we get respect as SWE in EU? In every eu state I have been, except maybe uk in some sector, there was the meme that we are "the new blue collar workers" and indeed in a lot of places salaries were pretty much aligned

I think it you want to feel respected as developer in Western Europe, you should be consulting. The best way to get a respectable compensation for your efforts.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#185

Post by matwood »

novok wrote: post #104
yocheckitdawg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I have been wondering about from the outside is if part of what keeps Japanese lifestyle's relatively cheap is that the population is so homogenous (& seemingly law-abiding) that there doesn't appear to be the same emphasis on living in a "good area" as in other countries for personal security reasons. I wonder if this acts as a somewhat hidden subsidy to life whereas for people in many Western countries it…

In canada, most places are not 'bad' areas, but just lower income or higher income. The competitiveness to live a richer area to get better schools is not much of a thing, almost a foreign concept.

> The competitiveness to live a richer area to get better schools is not much of a thing, almost a foreign concept.

I assume Canada doesn't primarily use local property taxes to pay for schools. This whole better schools thing is in higher income areas is a self imposed problem in the US.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#186

Post by threatripper »

jiofih wrote: post #110
threatripper wrote: post #103

If you pay slightly above average and treat your employees well you will get the best talent, they will be motivated and they will stay longer. Caveat is that only a fraction of the companies can run this strategy or the average pay rate will start to rise continuously.

That’s not a problem as it’s not a zero-sum game. Everyone could get their pay raised at the same time and the overall productivity would go up accordingly, until some point of equilibrium.

If you increase all wages at the same rate then inflation rises (as you don't increase productivity and resource availability accordingly) and you devalue savings. This is not a bad thing overall. It certainly is better than losing a war.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#187

Post by matwood »

nsonha wrote: post #62
hardwaresofton wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At many Japanese colleges, graduating with ~$40k/year at an office job is considered success after undergoing "seishoku katsudou" which the junior year college hunting process, as long as the company is of good repute. As japan is very homogenous culture wise relative to other countries, it's very common for people to generally start families before ~25/by the end of their 30s. $40k is a salary under which doing this…

> if engineers in America are ridiculously overpaid, or why do you only compare to Japan and EU? American engineers get paid more than anyone else (except for EU outliers). I make slightly above 100k in Australia, it's a bit tight with the housing situation and cost of living but it's liveable. Cost of living in the US is lower except for maybe healthcare but engineers get companies pay for them anyway. I don't have…

> but I think software engineers are overpaid.

I'm curious why you would think this. In some ways software is a trade, but what makes it unique to nearly any other profession is its multiplicative effect. One software engineer can write a program that improves the productivity of thousands or more people.

What would you pay the person who invented the lever? Now, what you would the pay the person who invents the lever every couple weeks?

If anything, many software engineers are still underpaid.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#188

Post by 4ad »

playing_colours wrote: post #127
eecc wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he respect that a lot of software engineers enjoys in US/EU And then you go on describing the average attitude towards software developers I perceived in the Netherlands… :)

I think it varies a lot between the countries. You can the difference even within German-speaking area. Recognition and the salaries (not sure about respect) are growing in Berlin and other large cities across Germany, but I heard that in Austria, software engineering is mostly seen as IT support cost centre.

I live in Austria. With the risk that comes from generalizations, I think you are mostly correct. They get respect from the general population, but when it comes to management and executives, software engineers are mostly seen as IT support, which is of course reflected in the very, very (!) low salaries.

There's this societal idea that "working in IT" is a good thing, but there is no distinction in most people's mind between different IT fields. Most people think that software engineers and people installing printers are more alike than similar.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#189

Post by matwood »

nsonha wrote: post #141
hardwaresofton wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from but I can't really agree that incentivizing raw labor is the way to get there (to a more equitable outcome for labor). The capital/labor struggle is a deep deep topic, but I think we can say at this point that with automation becoming increasingly common, labor is losing it's leg to stand on. We're going to get a lot farther by reining in capitalism than trying to return to piece…

> I can't really agree that incentivizing raw labor I read history books, I'm not that stupid. The reason I bring this up is a couple of comments up you said software creates tremendous value, I guess this is true for many other types of innovations too. You proceeded to say software developers need to be paid proportionate to that value and I disagree there. If we look at salary as incentive I would say that softwar…

> If we look at salary as incentive I would say that software engineers get enough incentive to do our job. As long as we get paid better than most other professions, society/the economy don't need to pay us more.

I disagree. The value created is going to be accreted somewhere, and I would prefer that somewhere be the labor that created it rather than the capital funded the creation.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#190

Post by chrisjharris »

taurath wrote: post #72
NalNezumi wrote: post #35

While establishing a "cause & effect" here seems very hard, from my personal experience working in software field in Japan, I think the winning concept here is actually the combination of removing middleman and paying good salaries. Japan is very very behind in IT/digitalization compared to most western countries. This doesn't just mean it's behind in product portfolio and quality, but that perception of software eng…

> Japan is very very behind in IT/digitalization compared to most western countries. This doesn't just mean it's behind in product portfolio and quality, but that perception of software engineer & managers and still quite behind. Have you used anything digital in Japan? I find the interfaces to be fast, user friendly, and energy dense. Far better quality than what most of the western software people put out. You migh…

I can see that you mean well but I really cannot agree with this statement.
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