Live data from Hacker News

CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

bloomberg.com

131–140 of 266 posts

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#131
As always you need to understand the context. It is typical for HN to bring an article, take some specific point devoid of context and raise conclusions on a different place and context.

Japan is not the US, Japan is a very small country that is basically overpopulated. Not just because it is a small country, but because most of Japan is highly mountainous and building space is just in the valleys.

That makes life extremely artificial there. Engineers are overworked and it is normal for them to live in the city isolated from their wife and children, in an apartment that your employer puts for you and that you just can't get on your own, something similar to health insurance in the US.

The pressure is so high on just one person to sustain the family in a life that is just work and work, and social relationship with work colleagues usually imply drinking a lot, that is extremely easy to burnout.

Burnout means when they try to work harder to sustain their families, they get less productivity, no more. And they risk the total collapse into anxiety crisis, depression or suicide.

It looks what this man is doing is releasing pressure, and productivity increases. Japanese teams are incredible. In Japan they raise you always thinking on the team, not the individual, like in the US, and when it works, it works really well.

The US, or even Europe has nothing to do with Japan environment. The freedom you have in the US is orders of magnitude higher. You don't like an employer, you just change jobs, without social stigma. Engineers could become millionaires. You can work not only in the US, but anywhere in the world speaking English for an American company, the Education system supports you instead of punishing you like in Japan. Taxes are small and population and economy grows instead of population shrinking and getting older and economy stagnating like in Japan.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to say that this model is still alive and well in Japan (like anywhere else obviously), and these days it looks like charging $10k/month (a lot to companies here for a single developer) for $2-5k/month developers in APAC or eastern Europe, with the guarantee that the project will be looked after based on the sensibilities of someone local/from the US (this person is usually the face of the business or extremely…

Parasitic implies one party (implied the employee?) is left worse off than otherwise. If these jobs are being accepted normally it's because the local offers are worse and the developer is not good/doesn't want to deal with the international business side (inc. finding clients, negotiating, etc). So it seems that in a free-ish market, this relationship would be strongly symbiotic, right? Interestingly in Japan they h…

Note that "key money" is a "translation" of 礼金, which literally means "gratitude money" and has nothing to do with keys. That doesn't make it less bullshit, but it makes it clearly unrelated to lock change fees.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#133
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome. The worst part is trying to read out loud a number. It's fine when you see a number like 1億6432万4871 and you know exactly where the splits are, but most of the time they will just use commas as thousand separators and write numbers as 164,324,871, and then it becomes really difficult to parse numbers, even for them.

> The worst part is trying to read out loud a number. It's fine when you see a number like 1億6432万4871 and you know exactly where the splits are, but most of the time they will just use commas as thousand separators and write numbers as 164,324,871, and then it becomes really difficult to parse numbers, even for them. Yep, or trying to figure this out in front of someone you're making a deal with -- normally I'm all…

Funny experience: being an European guy in a city with an American base means that all the Japanese assume I'm American too. They are quite surprised when they find I'm not. Heck, the guys at the city office were shocked when I went there to register my hanko :D

Anyway, you are lucky, as the dollar/yen exchange ratio is close to 100, so you can drop or add two zeroes and get a good approximation. For us the euro/yen ratio is around 130, such an approximation would introduce too much error.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#134

If you pay slightly above average and treat your employees well you will get the best talent, they will be motivated and they will stay longer. Caveat is that only a fraction of the companies can run this strategy or the average pay rate will start to rise continuously.

As it rises it starts to pull in talented people from other fields who wouldn't take the job otherwise (coming from everything from finance to biology). There is a lot more supply-side variability than people realise based on salary differences, and money can paper over a lot of work satisfaction issues, at least temporarily.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#135
post #111
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he respect that a lot of software engineers enjoys in US/EU And then you go on describing the average attitude towards software developers I perceived in the Netherlands… :)

Could you elaborate?

I am not OP but I have noticed in several European countries that many companies see software engineering (and IT in general) as a "necessary evil". Even in SMEs selling automation solutions, the perception is that the "real" work is done by the mechanical/electrical engineers and the marketing department, while the software engineers are just...support people, aren't they? And everybody has learned a little bit of python programming at the university, no? /s

You need official certificates to be allowed to work with high voltage. But the program that controls that machine there, well, it can be written by some Germanistics student who can't find a job in his original field (no offense intended. I know several brilliant programmers who never studied. I just want to illustrate the difference).

If you understand this attitude, you will also understand why the general state of cybersecurity in such companies is such a problem.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#136
post #118

> Tange, 46, says his business model is an attempt to remove inefficiencies in Japan’s software industry, where layers of subcontractors take cuts on orders before passing the work to another company below. This reminds me of a role I once had back in the late nighties. I was hired on contract by a multi-national consultancy firm to help out on one of their projects. The need someone to come in with good C programmin…

Want to say that this model is still alive and well in Japan (like anywhere else obviously), and these days it looks like charging $10k/month (a lot to companies here for a single developer) for $2-5k/month developers in APAC or eastern Europe, with the guarantee that the project will be looked after based on the sensibilities of someone local/from the US (this person is usually the face of the business or extremely…

I have never had a problem with "key money". I just see it as asking for 2/26ths of your rent up front (the average key money being 2 months rent and paid again every 2 years). I know it's labeled as "礼金" but functionally there is no different from them asking for 2/26ths of my rent up front and then asking for 1/26th each month for the next 24 months. That the system has evolved to have this strange system is curious but looking at it as just an upfront portion of the rent removes most negative feelings about it, at least for me.

The thing that still bugs me a little though is the fact that move in costs to the average apartment is 6 months rent. first month + 2 months deposit + 2 months key money + 1 month to realtor. So, a $2.5k a month apartment costs $15k to get started. You can often get 100% of your deposit back when you leave but still, I know lots of people, especially younger people, that saving up 6 months rent to move is hard which suggests it's a barrier to mobility.

Note: I'm comparing to Los Angeles where for large apartment complexes it was often just first months rent + $500 deposit to move in.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very interesting. So a person can raise a larger family on an engineer’s salary and be happy in Japan? An American expat.

One thing I have been wondering about from the outside is if part of what keeps Japanese lifestyle's relatively cheap is that the population is so homogenous (& seemingly law-abiding) that there doesn't appear to be the same emphasis on living in a "good area" as in other countries for personal security reasons. I wonder if this acts as a somewhat hidden subsidy to life whereas for people in many Western countries it…

> One thing I have been wondering about from the outside is if part of what keeps Japanese lifestyle's relatively cheap is that the population is so homogenous (& seemingly law-abiding) that there doesn't appear to be the same emphasis on living in a "good area" as in other countries for personal security reasons.

I's recommend you try doing some back of the envelope logic/math here. I think you'll find the personal security effect negligible (unless you're comparing with south africa).

Even to someome like me who leans towards "race realism" (e.g. racism) this sounds like nonsense and dogwhistling.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to say that this model is still alive and well in Japan (like anywhere else obviously), and these days it looks like charging $10k/month (a lot to companies here for a single developer) for $2-5k/month developers in APAC or eastern Europe, with the guarantee that the project will be looked after based on the sensibilities of someone local/from the US (this person is usually the face of the business or extremely…

I have never had a problem with "key money". I just see it as asking for 2/26ths of your rent up front (the average key money being 2 months rent and paid again every 2 years). I know it's labeled as "礼金" but functionally there is no different from them asking for 2/26ths of my rent up front and then asking for 1/26th each month for the next 24 months. That the system has evolved to have this strange system is curiou…

> The thing that still bugs me a little though is the fact that move in costs to the average apartment is 6 months rent. first month + 2 months deposit + 2 months key money + 1 month to realtor. So, a $2.5k a month apartment costs $15k to get started.

Well that's simply the result of having so many middlepeople! :)

The middlepeople figuring out that they should charge a multiple of rent rather than a static fee for the actual amount of work that may not keep up with inflation. A truly elegant solution. Another fun bit is the Guarantors that are sometimes required based on just how much the other side thinks they can trust you (or extract from you, since they often require guarantors they know).

> You can often get 100% of your deposit back when you leave

This I've not seen happen very often, most places will put it right in the contract that they're going to take 0 > You can often get 100% of your deposit back when you leave but still, I know lots of people, especially younger people, that saving up 6 months rent to move is hard which suggests it's a barrier to mobility.

I can see this, but a friend and I were discussing this the other day and he brought up an interesting point -- it could be that mobility was so common and bustling (maybe during the bubble?) that these middlepeople sprung up as a sort of natural reaction. I don't know the history but it's an interesting theory -- so maybe it's like a bad feedback loop -- middlemen appeared to facilitate lots and lots of real estate deals during a historic real estate boom, but they never geared back down so the friction persists.

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#139
It would be interesting to see how the company would have performed had he raised employees equity instead of salary?

I think having equity incentivizes employees to focus more on the welfare of the company than a fixed salary. I may be wrong though

Re: CEO behind Japan’s best-performing stock says his secret is raising salaries

#140

As always you need to understand the context. It is typical for HN to bring an article, take some specific point devoid of context and raise conclusions on a different place and context. Japan is not the US, Japan is a very small country that is basically overpopulated. Not just because it is a small country, but because most of Japan is highly mountainous and building space is just in the valleys. That makes life ex…

I like how you talk about taking things out of context, but then construct a caricature of Japan as an explanation instead.

Yes, those things happen in Japan, but they’re not the norm. At least not in my experience.

Post reply on HN