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Time to Close the Security Theater

blogs.forbes.com

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Re: Time to Close the Security Theater

#21

Post by smhinsey »

swombat wrote: post #17
iwwr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What constitutes a 'dangerous person'? There is already an extensive no-fly list in place, which incidentally is secret and gives people no avenue for appeal if they have been wrongly put on it.

Israeli airports use extensive profiling to identify potential suicide bombers, from car checkpoints away from the airport to airport staff instructed to look people in the eye and ask them how they're doing (people about to blow themselves up tend to act differently from normal people). They definitely seem to focus on identifying people rather than things. Seems to work ok for them under much harsher conditions tha…

The TSA already seems to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for their screeners. Given the tremendous discrepancy in the number of airports in Israel vs. the United States, how are we supposed to come up with enough people who are as qualified as the ones Israel can handpick for their airports?

Re: Time to Close the Security Theater

#22

Post by djiddish98 »

bluedanieru wrote: post #2

Better yet, it needs to be replaced with a competitive market for air travel in which the airports, the airways, and the airliners are in private hands. Some might object that private firms will have incentives to cut corners on safety. It is a legitimate concern, but competitive mechanisms tend to weed this out. Ugh, how are they going to 'weed this out' exactly? Seems to me competitive pressures would lead private…

This was the exact sentence in the article when I stopped reading it seriously (despite earlier attempts by the author).

"Competitive pressure" = bad PR when a plane crashes. And then, the company will just lie low and latch on to another airline.

IE - ValuJet merging with AirTran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet

The TSA should be an easy agency to write a scathing article about. This author came in with some preconceived notions about the wonders of the free market and just layered the TSA on top, with little effect.

Re: Time to Close the Security Theater

#23

Post by billybob »

Terrorism is about creating terror. It's about magnifying, in your enemy's mind, what is actually a small threat.

If you have an entire military, you don't use terrorism; you kill your enemies en masse. If you're a small band of nutjobs, you scrape together the resources for a few small hits. You hope that fear will do the rest of the job of crippling your enemy.

The way to defeat terrorism is to not be terrified. To call them on their bluff. "You are a tiny band of nutjobs. You can't kill us all. You can't even kill .00001% of us. You are less of a problem than peanut allergies. If you set off a bomb once in a while, we'll have you hunted down, and the rest of us will continue with life as usual."

Re: Time to Close the Security Theater

#24

Post by zig »

asmithmd1 wrote: post #9

The reason the TSA is not reigned in is that only the little people are subject to search. If you fly on a private jet you and your luggage are whisked right to your plane with no inspection whatsoever.

Why would you need inspection if you are flying privately? I'm a GA pilot, what am I going to do, hijack myself with a fork?

Re: Time to Close the Security Theater

#25

Post by bdunbar »

bluedanieru wrote: post #2

Better yet, it needs to be replaced with a competitive market for air travel in which the airports, the airways, and the airliners are in private hands. Some might object that private firms will have incentives to cut corners on safety. It is a legitimate concern, but competitive mechanisms tend to weed this out. Ugh, how are they going to 'weed this out' exactly? Seems to me competitive pressures would lead private…

Seems to me competitive pressures would lead private firms to do exactly what the TSA is doing i.e. give the appearance of being serious about security.

In the marketplace competitive pressure leads to better service, not worse.

LASIK has gone from a novelty for the rich to a treatment everyone can afford, for example. Possibly counter examples exist, but I can't think of any offhand. Perhaps after I've had my morning coffee.

The reason I would prefer a private company over government is that you have a choice with a private firm: don't like AA's service, think their security guys are fools? Fly with Southwest. Write a letter to AA. Become a shareholder and annoy the board with your opinions.

So do something like this: require private security firms to meet standards X, Y, Z. Enforcement by government inspection. Bust a standard, loose your business license.

This works in other areas - workplace safety, food inspection.

Am I missing something?

Re: Time to Close the Security Theater

#26

Post by cema »

smhinsey wrote: post #21
swombat wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israeli airports use extensive profiling to identify potential suicide bombers, from car checkpoints away from the airport to airport staff instructed to look people in the eye and ask them how they're doing (people about to blow themselves up tend to act differently from normal people). They definitely seem to focus on identifying people rather than things. Seems to work ok for them under much harsher conditions tha…

The TSA already seems to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for their screeners. Given the tremendous discrepancy in the number of airports in Israel vs. the United States, how are we supposed to come up with enough people who are as qualified as the ones Israel can handpick for their airports?

The number of airports is consistent with the number of people. But who in his right mind would want to work in TSA if they can find a respected job elsewhere? Israeli screeners, on the other hand, are respected.

Re: Time to Close the Security Theater

#27

Post by demallien »

bruce511 wrote: post #11
maeon3 wrote: post #8

The problem with airport security in America is that they search for "Dangerous Items", not "Dangerous People". A dangerous person is allowed on an American flight if he/she doesn't have any dangerous items with him. In my opinion, a motivated group of guys could take a plane hostage with nothing but car keys, ju jitsu and some creative thinking. I'm not saying searching for the dangerous person is superior to search…

Actually, they only search for dangerous items coming through one door. Do you think every person, product or vehicle that enters an airport goes through the same scrutiny as the passengers? It's like having a bank, where the front door is policed by an army, but the backdoor is wide open for employees, and every window in the place is open every day. Given the amount of theft from airport bags, and hence stolen good…

Well, just to play devil's advocate, I don't get patted down leaving the airport, so I'm not terribly sure that your point about baggage theft is relevant...

Re: Time to Close the Security Theater

#29

Post by asmithmd1 »

zig wrote: post #24
asmithmd1 wrote: post #9

The reason the TSA is not reigned in is that only the little people are subject to search. If you fly on a private jet you and your luggage are whisked right to your plane with no inspection whatsoever.

Why would you need inspection if you are flying privately? I'm a GA pilot, what am I going to do, hijack myself with a fork?

The threat the TSA is trying to address is preventing someone from converting a plane into a cruise missile.

That is not possible to do that on the commercial side not because anything TSA does but because of the reinforced cockpit doors and because passengers would fight back.

Anyone with a $15k limit on a credit card can call NetJets and order up a jet which they can load up with as much explosives as the plane can carry. Yet another reason everything TSA does is theater - it does nothing to prevent another 9/11 style attack.

Re: Time to Close the Security Theater

#30

Post by corin_ »

bruce511 wrote: post #11
maeon3 wrote: post #8

The problem with airport security in America is that they search for "Dangerous Items", not "Dangerous People". A dangerous person is allowed on an American flight if he/she doesn't have any dangerous items with him. In my opinion, a motivated group of guys could take a plane hostage with nothing but car keys, ju jitsu and some creative thinking. I'm not saying searching for the dangerous person is superior to search…

Actually, they only search for dangerous items coming through one door. Do you think every person, product or vehicle that enters an airport goes through the same scrutiny as the passengers? It's like having a bank, where the front door is policed by an army, but the backdoor is wide open for employees, and every window in the place is open every day. Given the amount of theft from airport bags, and hence stolen good…

If I see someone holding a laptop I don't immediately think "crime", if I see someone holding a gun...

There's a big difference between looking for certain objects that are banned, and looking for objects that are perfectly allowed but might be in the hands of someone other than the owner.

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