Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 265 posts

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#251

Post by billytetrud »

Black101 wrote: post #194
billytetrud wrote: post #2

Unsurprising, but still disappointing. Actually I'm glad someone is trying to hold them accountable. It seems silly tho that we need to pass a law to uphold what's already written into the constitution. It highlights that the constitution only has teeth in some legal contexts, primarily where a court case is being heard on a citizen being prosecuted. Conditionality seems to not have any bearing on preventing agencies…

> It seems silly tho that we need to pass a law to uphold what's already written into the constitution. What makes you think that they will respect new laws?

Great question. Unless there are consequences, some will simply ignore it and do what they want.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#252

Post by tick_tock_tick »

einpoklum wrote: post #228
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2nd Amendment is always a great point in these kind of debates if any other right had half as many restrictions on it people would be on the streets. Requiring an ID to vote is viewed as completely unacceptable by many but the very same people think it's perfectly reasonable to require it for other rights.

On the contrary. Many other key rights in the US are curtailed and restricted - like security against unreasonable search and seizure, the subject of this story - while the right to bear arms has been expanded massively in recent decades beyond the context of allowing for a well-regulated militia. Also, people _have_ been in the streets in the US last year, a lot...

> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

> the right of the people to keep and bear Arms

I don't understand how you could read that and interpret it as a right for anything other than the people?

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#253

Post by TheTester »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #56
vlan0 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. We saw it with Andrew Yang as well. Either being left out completely, or media outlets taking about 'him' without actually saying his name.

I'm skeptical of this media blackout. I heard lots of people talking about this, he was on podcasts, I saw him interviewed. Look at how much discussion there is about him running in NYC. I think it was much more that there were a whole lot of credible people running and there wasn't enough air in the room for him to get much. I saw every losing group complain of the election being stolen from them in some way, Warren…

[dead]

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#254

Post by einpoklum »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #252
einpoklum wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary. Many other key rights in the US are curtailed and restricted - like security against unreasonable search and seizure, the subject of this story - while the right to bear arms has been expanded massively in recent decades beyond the context of allowing for a well-regulated militia. Also, people _have_ been in the streets in the US last year, a lot...

> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. > the right of the people to keep and bear Arms I don't understand how you could read that and interpret it as a right for anything other than the people?

I'm not interpreting it as anything, it was the US supreme court.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#255

Post by CRConrad »

TomSwirly wrote: post #243
tpmx wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the extreme asshattery history of Assange, it seems just as probable that he was mostly trying to get some attention with guesses and then later claimed that it was a deliberate disinformation campaign.

> asshattery Stopped reading there.

Yeah, the truth can be hard to handle.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#256

Post by CRConrad »

TheTester wrote: post #83
tpmx wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the extreme asshattery history of Assange, it seems just as probable that he was mostly trying to get some attention with guesses and then later claimed that it was a deliberate disinformation campaign.

Unless you are quite rich and powerful, saying that what Assange has done is mostly "asshattery" is dishonest, yes he has had flukes but consider the mental state of someone being prosecuted and hunted by the most powerful and corrupt people in our planet, mostly what Assange has done s good and denying and calling him an asshat is dishonest and shows a clear bias on your part

Your defense seems to boil down to asshattery being understandable when one is persecuted by national security organisations.

That would be a valid defense of Assange -- if the asshattery had come after the persecution. But from all I've read about him, it was the other way around. He has always been a humongous asshat.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#258

Post by RhodoGSA »

billytetrud wrote: post #247
WalterBright wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitution is just a piece of paper. It is powerless if people ignore it. It's the same with presidents, kings, and dictators. If people just stopped doing what they said, they become nothing. There's an incident in Soviet history where Stalin was sure they were coming to arrest and execute him. He was shaking and completely powerless. But they were just coming to affirm his power. The Arab Spring came about be…

The problem with the constitution is that it provides few good legal mechanisms to enforce the provisions of the constitution. It doesn't incentivize government officers and representatives to follow the constitution. If there were clear consequences for doing things or supporting things that violate the constitution, and if there were clear procedures for indictment with a broad ability for those procedures to be st…

Being 'Held responsible' for laws you created is a very scary thing. Public opinion and overall morality historically is a fickle thing.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#259

Post by billytetrud »

RhodoGSA wrote: post #258
billytetrud wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the constitution is that it provides few good legal mechanisms to enforce the provisions of the constitution. It doesn't incentivize government officers and representatives to follow the constitution. If there were clear consequences for doing things or supporting things that violate the constitution, and if there were clear procedures for indictment with a broad ability for those procedures to be st…

Being 'Held responsible' for laws you created is a very scary thing. Public opinion and overall morality historically is a fickle thing.

It sounds like you're implying that "public opinion" is how culpability would be determined. That isn't how the court system works.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#260

Post by babesh »

kmonsen wrote: post #110
splithalf wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you prefer no laws? Seems we benefit from them no?

That is one of the largest straw men I have ever seen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Size_and_scope_...

The US government was hacking Google by tapping cables between its data centers with direct access to Google accounts. The US government was paying tech companies for data on their customers. The US government had Verizon turn over phone records on millions of their customers daily. The US government used other countries spy agencies to spy on US citizens.

Post reply on HN