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There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

economist.com

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Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#321

Post by maxerickson »

briandear wrote: post #283
rualca wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>And the U.S. couldn't close its land borders even if it wanted to. Given that until recently the US was quite militant in refusing to act upon the outbreak, and it's a country comprised of hundreds of million of people among which about a third showed themselves to be quite defiant towards even the most trivial emergency public health policies, I don't think it's fair to refer to border control as a relevant factor…

> Given that until recently the US was quite militant in refusing to act upon the outbreak Factually untrue. The US was the first country to shut down China travel. And we got called Xenophobic for it. The mayor of Florence even held a “hug a Chinese” day in response. https://rmx.news/article/article/fears-of-being-called-racis...

The US never shut down travel from China, it banned people not from the US from traveling from China to the US. US citizens and some other groups were still allowed to travel.

Singapore started severely restrict travel and quarantining arriving citizens a couple days before the US ban.

https://www.gov.sg/article/how-is-singapore-limiting-the-spr...

A faster travel ban for Italy and other EU countries would have done the US more good.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#322

Post by orblivion »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #295
orblivion wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW from a brief search months ago it seemed that the welding stories are hearsay. Iirc you can find reference to them in the news but it didn't sound concrete.

There were literal videos about it at the same time ( a year ago)

I recall seeing various grainy creepy videos (not just about this) supposedly of China posted on Twitter. I started to wonder who was really pushing these videos. I'd have to see a video corroborated by a reasonably trusted news source.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#323

Post by [deleted] »

khazhoux wrote: post #51

This has me a bit confused: I look at the stats on cases and deaths per capita across various U.S. states, including California (which was very locked down, at least in theory) and Florida (which was flippant towards risks of contagion), and many states in between. The per capita cases+deaths are nearly identical across many states with very different approaches. This left me really wondering which measures were and…

[deleted]

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#324

Post by cma »

corty wrote: post #185
cma wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about China itself?

China might be fine, or it might not be. But only a fool would trust CCP numbers.

I don't think you have to trust their numbers, but could they hide extensive outbreaks like the OP is talking about (all numbers being roughly the same and measures having little observable effect)? It would be something like 4 million+ excess deaths.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#325

Post by raydev »

chmod600 wrote: post #158
auxym wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some canadian provinces are still closing down schools at the moment.

Why? Sincere question. Is there science to back it up or is it just fear of making a wrong decision?

I don’t know why no one is saying this, but Ontario’s ICU numbers skyrocketed to 900 at the peak just a few weeks ago. We’re only down to 700 occupied beds now and normal medical procedures are still paused because of the enormous ICU load.

It wasn’t until we closed schools that the trend reversed.

People are so quick to blame fear without actually looking at the data

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#326

Post by [deleted] »

pasabagi wrote: post #293
spankyspangler wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Virus reservoirs are things. Clearly I was not suggesting the concept of a virus reservoir was a conspiracy theory. I don't know if you were being deliberately obtuse, but it does not help the conversation. The parent made 3 claims, increasingly improbable, with the last seeming to be a hateful conspiracy theory. >> Except these surrounding towns act as virus reservoirs for the large cities. The assertion is the to…

I'd hazard he's being ironic. This all said, there's a germ of truth in the unhinged paranoia - it's a bit like rolling coal. You heard of rolling coal? It's where people modify their trucks to make them emit toxic black smoke. It's bad for your engine. It's bad for your fuel economy. But, it's also bad for those pussy cyclists and eco-freaks who keep on going on about global warming. There is a powerful current in p…

[deleted]

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#327

Post by raydev »

auxym wrote: post #231
chmod600 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Sincere question. Is there science to back it up or is it just fear of making a wrong decision?

Sincerely, I don't know. Almost all of the at risk population here has had at least a first shot. But the situation in Ontario has been pretty bad the past few weeks. But I don't follow the science closely enough. I hope they're making the right call, because it's really hard on the kids. I'm just glad my own little guy is not of school age yet, and in fact is young enough to be mostly oblivious to the whole thing.

Conveniently skipping over the occupied ICUs. How do you not know that our medical system was overwhelmed or that the rise in cases only reversed after we shut down schools both times in the last 4 months?

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#328

Post by nervlord »

pasabagi wrote: post #258
danenania wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the intentions were good, but it's also probably true that public health officials have been reluctant to admit when there just wasn't much they could do about the situation that would make a major difference, save for employing totalitarian enforcement measures that no one wanted. Masks in public are not all that burdensome, so imo the mandates were reasonable regardless of the actual impact, but I wish they…

> wasn't much they could do about the situation that would make a major difference, save for employing totalitarian enforcement measures that no one wanted. Are you insane? There are tons of countries that are not totalitarian, with big land borders, that have done far better than the US. There are countries (SK, Japan) with tiny numbers of cases. There are obviously thousands of things that could have been different…

Real hard to take it seriously when the democrats are acting like a BLM protest is perfectly fine, or indeed any of their other pet causes, but you can't keep your gym open. Please don't pretend trump was the only one off message here. Democrats have PLENTY of blame

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#329

Post by nimbleal »

shoguning wrote: post #260
mattnewton wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have anything to add except that California is huge and very unevenly applied “lockdown” - there are many towns a where businesses remained open or reopened frequently, but the big cities did have large shelter in place efforts. It would be interesting to compare on the municipal level if the data was that granular.

According to a study in PNAS, shelter-in-place policies in the US did not work: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/15/e2019706118 Another study in Eur J Clin Inv had similar findings comparing countries: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13484 COVID went wild basically everywhere. There were a few strong exceptions: China (apparently), Australia, New Zealand and some others. What these had in common was v…

The strictness of the enforcement in China has been overstated in the media. Strict, but not that strict. Source: here during the Chinese lockdown, have compared notes with those in other cities.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#330

Post by nervlord »

AptExtrapolatio wrote: post #130
codelord wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is from earlier: https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countr... Interestingly Sweden that got famous for defying lockdowns saw an uptick of 1.5% excess mortality per 100K people compared to 12.9% for the US that was relatively more locked down. I'm not sure what to make of it, but it sure is an interesting data point.

Simple. US has obesity as a significant comorbidity factor.

ding ding ding ding tell him what he's won!
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