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There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

economist.com

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Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#241

Post by glangdale »

noxer wrote: post #40

The question is how much less death will there be in the years to come. Especially the older people who died earlier because of covid. We should see a decline in death from all kinds of diseases that these people had and would have died from/with.

This assumes that there are no long-term mortality effects from having COVID and not dying from it, which seems not proven at this stage. I mean, yes, we'll see fewer very old people dying of the flu next year, but idk whether we'll see a bunch of late middle age or 'not very old' people dying from long COVID.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#242

Post by rualca »

corty wrote: post #185
cma wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about China itself?

China might be fine, or it might not be. But only a fool would trust CCP numbers.

It should be noted that this is the same CCP that until recently have been simultaneously accusing Spain and Italy and the US of being the origin of the pandemic outbreak, instead of Wuhan.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#243

Post by giantg2 »

pmoriarty wrote: post #150
claytongulick wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The populations were much lower back then As a percentage of the population, why would this matter? Other than for population density which you would generally expect to cause an increased rate of infection, not less.

It matters because a million people dying is worse than ten people dying, even if those ten people were 50% of some population and the million were only 10% of another population.

Even if that's true, that doesn't support your position.

Conservative estimated deaths: Coronavirus - 3M Black death - 75M (in ten years) Spanish flu - 35M

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#244

Post by Spooky23 »

chmod600 wrote: post #233
Spooky23 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have vaccine shortages. The issue is the teachers, not the kids.

Are schools a major source of transmission for teachers and staff?

Yes. Workplaces with lots of contact always are.

In Nov-Feb, I was losing 40-60 employees a week to infection or quarantine. Mostly people in essential IT support positions

My sons school was open most of the year, but shutdown for a month due to teacher quarantines.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#245

Post by amanaplanacanal »

khazhoux wrote: post #51

This has me a bit confused: I look at the stats on cases and deaths per capita across various U.S. states, including California (which was very locked down, at least in theory) and Florida (which was flippant towards risks of contagion), and many states in between. The per capita cases+deaths are nearly identical across many states with very different approaches. This left me really wondering which measures were and…

Where I live, the restrictions have explicitly been tuned so as to not overwhelm hospital facilities. Minimizing deaths was not a stated goal. They measured new cases and how many hospital bed were available, then adjusted restrictions accordingly per County. So for example, you might see no indoor dining in one County, but indoor dining allowed at 25% capacity the next County over. They seem to have done a pretty good job given the stated goal.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#246

Post by jussij »

chmod600 wrote: post #67
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #41

Please don’t look at 7m-13m number and compare it to 7 billion population and say oh it’s only 0.1-0.2%. Pretty much ever country has seen a 15-20% increase in excess mortality rates (20% more people dying than averages in the past), this is huge. This is one of the best up to date visualizations on this topic, scroll down and see breakdowns by country - https://www.ft.com/content/a2901ce8-5eb7-4633-b89c-cbdf5b386...

I'm not quite sure what your point is. The absolute number is the number, and zooming in to make it a relative number for dramatic effect doesn't change that. It's kind of like zooming in to a stock market graph so the spikes look bigger.

The OP's point is focusing on that absolute number is not a good measure, only because when compared to the world population it gives the 0.1-0.2% of population effected result, which is obviously way off.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#247

Post by coldtea »

empthought wrote: post #238
spankyspangler wrote: post #227

That sounds like a pretty wild conspiracy theory. Any basis for this belief?

Virus reservoirs are things. This is why New Zealand has not admitted tourists, and why their case count is so low.

But New Zealand not admitting tourists has little to do with whether in California "surrounding towns act as virus reservoirs for the large cities" and even less with there being a “become COVID-19 carriers to own the libs strategy".

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#248

Post by mojomark »

tester756 wrote: post #61

How strong is anti vaccine / anti mask movement in the US? As I see there's very little of it "on the american side of the internet", meanwhile "here" they tend to cause a lot of disruption and shitton of missinformation

I would not conflate "anti-vaccine people" with "anti-mask people".

I live in the state of Maryland and yesterday our governor lifted the mask requirement for vaccinated people. I am a fiscal conservative and am vaccinated (got it as soon as I could, because science and common sense informed me that I should). I have relatives, including my own mother, who are far right wing and will not get vaccinated because they believe COVID is a conspiracy and/or "fake" (... I know). As far as I'm concerned, folks who refuse to get vaccinated are on their own and all of the remaining vaccine doses should get sent to people and countries who actually want and need it most. I realize that's cold. I also realise that's a logistical nightmare, but I have zero empathy for people who refuse to get vaccinated and then contract COVID.

So, I am for vaccines, but in regions where vaccines have been fully offered to every single citizen that wants one, I am against forcing the wearing of masks. I still carry a mask in case I'm in a situation that warrants, but I will not inconvenience myself any longer for someone who refuses to do the bare minimum to protect themselves from COVID.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#249

Post by droidist2 »

danenania wrote: post #156
TheRealSteel wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean?

It doesn't account for Africa, but many of best-performing countries have been island countries (Australia, NZ, Taiwan, Iceland, etc.). Islands have some fairly obvious advantages in fighting a pandemic, and it shows in the statistics. I believe Hawaii has also done much better than other US states. I'm not sure whether that's what the comment was referring to though.

Yes, also South Korea is for all intents and purposes an island. It's surrounded by water, except on the North which is the most heavily militarized border in the world.

Re: There have been 7M-13M excess deaths worldwide during the pandemic

#250

Post by belltaco »

wernercd wrote: post #159
orblivion wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seemed like a lot of the states that did well despite opening early were southern states where it isn't really winter when it's winter. Also I've heard the claim that (to be as apolitical as I can here) in Florida they secured the elderly population more quickly and carefully than in New York. You may want to look into that claim.

I'd say "Florida secured their elderly population more quickly and carefully than in New York" misses the fact that New York ACTIVELY put its elderly in harms way by requiring nursing homes take patients. If New York ONLY ignored the problem that'd be one thing... but they actively made decisions that led to a large number of deaths - and more importantly those decisions were AGAINST the CDC guidelines.

>If New York ONLY ignored the problem that'd be one thing

So where would recovered nursing home residents go? Keep staying in the hospital which would mean active covid patients would die in the streets? Or the streets?

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