Live data from Hacker News

Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

zenhabits.net

1–10 of 30 posts

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#2
This is so much easier to see in other people than yourself.

For instance, I know someone who is very giving with his time and energy, but when someone fails to thank him to a degree that he thinks is proper, he gets really angry about it.

I've tried telling him not to do things with an expectation of something in return, even a 'Thank you', because it will just make him angry. He should be doing them because he wants to do them for the person.

For another example, a lady gave to charity at work every year. Then, her daughter fell on hard times and there wasn't enough money for her daughter, and her grand-daughter. She went to some of the very same organizations that she donated to for years and they all told her that she wasn't their target and they couldn't help her. She got really angry and stopped giving to charity at all.

I don't blame her, but she'd have been much less angry if she'd not expected anything.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#5
They could have elaborated on how to achieve this a bit more. At it's core, the thing which must be increased is awareness, of both yourself and the world (which, from the proper perspective, are one and the same). The concrete method is meditation, where the goal is to learn to make your mind perfectly still. In attempting to do so, one will become aware of the things which are not still, these things are attachments. Enlightenment is called the process of self-realization for this reason - when you become aware of how much of what you think you are is really not you at all, you will know your true self and transcend suffering. You will transcend it because you're not the one who's suffering in the first place. Suffering is essentially an identity crisis.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#6
I can appreciate the benefits of lowering your expectations of others, but I have trouble reconciling how to lower expectations of oneself without sacrificing your goals.

My friends and family often tell me that I'd be more content if I lowered my self-expectations, but I have trouble not equating that with throwing in the towel.

Is it possible to obtain a healthy balance in the middle? I hope so, otherwise I worry that the next Benjamin Franklin, or Steve Jobs, or insert-your-favorite-overachiever-here will read advice like this and take the easy route instead of working harder to follow their dreams.

Seriously though, I'd be thrilled if anybody could suggest that both are somehow possible.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#7
I would like to toss the author of this paean to passivity into the ocean.

Yes, sure, clinging on to certain kinds of unrealistic expectations, in certain contexts (particularly personal relationships), can be fatal.

But this is a truism that any idiot could tell you - and in this case the post is generalized to the point of meaninglessness.

Suppose you encounter someone who is openly racist, dishonest or technically incompetent at their job, and no one is challenging him about it. Because it's bad to have expectations about public & professional behaviour, and even worse to actually impose them on others!

Here's the core message: when the world isn't how you think it should be, don't have the courage to try and change it, or to speak out about how you feel. Suppress your feelings, accept everything just the way it is, and - just as long as you yourself behave well - all the bad energy will go away!

Sounds to me like someone trying to justify being a total wimp. Like someone who's so afraid of experiencing any degree of anger or disappointment that they philosophize their way to vapidity and numbness. And I'm afraid that's my overall impression of people who embrace "zen" as a lifestyle paradigm, (rather than just a mindset for, say, a discrete programming project, for which it can work wonderfully). Zen has its place, but taken too far it becomes morally corrosive, and turns personalities to mud.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#8
This is easier said than done. I'd like to think I learned not to expect anything from anyone, apart from very close persons. And I think it fits in the rational part of how I see things.

But even if I act and prepare myself to cope with people doing unexpected stuff, deep down I'm still hit when they actually do it. And this deep feeling is hard to suppress.

Besides, if you want to actually do something with other people, you're bound to make some assumptions on how they will react. Thus, expectations.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#9
post #7

I would like to toss the author of this paean to passivity into the ocean. Yes, sure, clinging on to certain kinds of unrealistic expectations, in certain contexts (particularly personal relationships), can be fatal. But this is a truism that any idiot could tell you - and in this case the post is generalized to the point of meaninglessness. Suppose you encounter someone who is openly racist, dishonest or technically…

I had a lot of trouble with this aspect too and your logic is perfectly valid but your assumptions are missing a key piece. Part of accepting things the way they are is understanding that you are an integral part of the world. This implies that not only do you have the power to influence it but that doing so is both inescapable and your duty.

Telling someone that they are ignorant or incompetent is far more effective when you're not hinged on whether or not they will listen to you. If you are attached to the result, you will become a dictator. If you are not, you will become the most effective type of leader. It is far more effective to give someone the message and trust them to figure it out then to force them to change when they either don't want to or are not yet capable. If one person hits a bottleneck, there are millions of others who are capable of taking their next step with a little guidance from you.

I completely agree that a lot of people fall into the trap you described.

Re: Toss Your Expectations Into the Ocean

#10
post #7

I would like to toss the author of this paean to passivity into the ocean. Yes, sure, clinging on to certain kinds of unrealistic expectations, in certain contexts (particularly personal relationships), can be fatal. But this is a truism that any idiot could tell you - and in this case the post is generalized to the point of meaninglessness. Suppose you encounter someone who is openly racist, dishonest or technically…

Most of that is your expectation of what the author intended. I didn't read any of that. Just this: try to improve the world, try to help others perform better. Emotionally respond to the result, sure. Then ... let it go. Live and learn. Try something different next time.

I've met folks who live this way. They are not wimps. They are strong, and resilient.

What is a wimp? More like, someone who is afraid, who lashes out at things before they understand them, staying in their disfunctional rut rather than risk any emotion other than anger.

Post reply on HN