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Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

mtgox.com

61–70 of 176 posts

Re: Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

#61

Everybody should give the people behind Mt. Gox a break. These guys make real banks look good - no small feat!

> These guys make real banks look good

I suppose arbitrarily allowing someone to devalue an entire currency because of lax security procedures is technically better than evicting people out of their home.

Re: Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

#62
post #23

If I had any bitcoins hosted on mtgox and, for some reason, had not already taken them out, I would do so right now . When you give them your bitcoins, you are trusting them to keep your money safe. I trust my money with my large bank for two reasons: (1) they have a large safe and have practice keeping people out, but more importantly, (2) if someone were to break in and take some of the bank's money, I would know t…

It was crypt-MD5, the fact that they call it MD5 with salt is generous at best. They seem to have made the decision to move to crypt-MD5. I don't really have any faith in their ability to secure the servers.

True, but I think this has been fixed, assuming their new site is live:

"The new Mt. Gox site features SHA-512 multi-iteration, triple salted hashing and soon will have an option for users to enable a withdraw password that will be separate from their login passwords."

Re: Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

#63
post #23

If I had any bitcoins hosted on mtgox and, for some reason, had not already taken them out, I would do so right now . When you give them your bitcoins, you are trusting them to keep your money safe. I trust my money with my large bank for two reasons: (1) they have a large safe and have practice keeping people out, but more importantly, (2) if someone were to break in and take some of the bank's money, I would know t…

The reason Mt Gox needs to obsess over password database is because they don't seem experienced enough to secure the rest of their site. When it comes down to it, they are still a "PHP+mysql" site like all the others on the Internet.

Would you store your funds at the Bank of Wordpress?

Re: Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

#64

Everybody should give the people behind Mt. Gox a break. These guys make real banks look good - no small feat!

> These guys make real banks look good - no small feat!

How, exactly? I don't remember many instances of banks having security issues that dropped the value of the US dollar to 1/1750th of its value, even briefly.

Re: Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

#65
post #63
post #23

If I had any bitcoins hosted on mtgox and, for some reason, had not already taken them out, I would do so right now . When you give them your bitcoins, you are trusting them to keep your money safe. I trust my money with my large bank for two reasons: (1) they have a large safe and have practice keeping people out, but more importantly, (2) if someone were to break in and take some of the bank's money, I would know t…

The reason Mt Gox needs to obsess over password database is because they don't seem experienced enough to secure the rest of their site. When it comes down to it, they are still a "PHP+mysql" site like all the others on the Internet. Would you store your funds at the Bank of Wordpress?

Facebook is a "PHP+mysql" site.

Re: Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

#66
post #6

"The new Mt. Gox site features SHA-512 multi-iteration, triple salted hashing" Why not use a standard key derivation function such as PBKDF2 or bcrypt to provide some confidence in the system rather than inventing their own? AFAIK bcrypt is strong because of Blowfish's expensive key setup. How does this compare to SHA-512?

What is the benefit of bcrypt over several million rounds of SHA-512? It seems to me that repeating the hash function is the adjustable work factor that bcrypt seeks to allow and SHA-2 is already in most languages without an additional library.

When talking about DIY crypto, the question should be turned around - what's the benefit of this over just using bcrypt?

Re: Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

#67
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason Mt Gox needs to obsess over password database is because they don't seem experienced enough to secure the rest of their site. When it comes down to it, they are still a "PHP+mysql" site like all the others on the Internet. Would you store your funds at the Bank of Wordpress?

Facebook is a "PHP+mysql" site.

I wouldn't store my money on facebook either.

Re: Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

#68
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying MTGox is a bank, they're not, they are an exchange.

It seems they like to use this term, so bitcoin can claim it's still decentralized. Since it's obvious we do need banks for bitcoin (or a safe way to store our currency) and it's not very anonymous, what's the point of using it again? I would rather just use credit cards or cash.

Mt.Gox really is an exchange; the whole point of the site is to convert between BTC and USD. If you wanted a bank, you'd use something else. It's also not clear to me that it's safer to store BTC on a server.

Re: Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

#69
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason Mt Gox needs to obsess over password database is because they don't seem experienced enough to secure the rest of their site. When it comes down to it, they are still a "PHP+mysql" site like all the others on the Internet. Would you store your funds at the Bank of Wordpress?

Facebook is a "PHP+mysql" site.

You're about 2 years out of date.

Re: Those 500K Bitcoins that caused the flash crash weren't real

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, when this very first happened, I was in the IRC room at onlyonetv interviewed Mark (via proxy). I kept shouting in IRC to ask them to use bcrypt and was told they were doing 1000xSHA-512. I later tweeted at MagicalTux to recommend bcrypt and was asked if multiple iterations of SHA-512 is good enough. He said that he was told bcrypt was not secure enough. How do these businesses succeed with business people that…

>How do these businesses succeed with business people that have no business wit about them, have NO ability to communicate effectively in these critical situations and have awful taste in technical advice? They take off because they are excellent, useful and timely ideas. Unfortunately, people who have strong, timely ideas, like this one, frequently aren't able to find good technical co-founders, probably because of…

Ideas are worthless refers to the fact that an obvious thing is obvious - I would argue that most ideas that go on to become successful products are obvious. Seldom are they really revolutionary. The implementation might be, but the idea itself seldom is.

In the current case, well just because it isn't perfect from a technical standpoint, doesn't mean it wasn't the best execution of the idea out in the wild...

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