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Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

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Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#11

Post by trasz »

hirundo wrote: post #7

> The case stems from European Union concerns that United States government surveillance may not respect the privacy rights of EU citizens These are valid concerns that I share as a U.S. citizen concerned about my own privacy from government surveillance. It's appropriate for other countries to share them and to take action. But is it clear that government surveillance by EU countries is more respecting of privacy? I…

Would you, as an US citizen, be fine with Facebook transferring all your data to another country with no control over it?

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#12

Post by amelius »

twobitshifter wrote: post #8
rich_sasha wrote: post #5

I can’t see why it would be devastating in practice. Why can’t the servers that deduce every little thing about the users be also based in EU? If I want a worldwide ad (is that even a thing?) for left-leaning horse owners between ages of 20-27.5 with a child and at least 2 partners, can’t that be dished out from an EU server for EU users?

I, an American, have a friend in France, where is our friendship stored? I send a message to my friend in France they send me one back, where are these two messages stored? We have a photo taken while traveling together in Belgium with 2 other Americans, what server? I could see this being a problem only effectively solved by a separate EU and US Facebook. It is not clear what data they are worried about transmission…

> I, an American, have a friend in France, where is our friendship stored?

Sounds almost philosophical. I have a friend. We both have brains. In which brain is our friendship stored?

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#13

Post by rbinv »

rich_sasha wrote: post #5

I can’t see why it would be devastating in practice. Why can’t the servers that deduce every little thing about the users be also based in EU? If I want a worldwide ad (is that even a thing?) for left-leaning horse owners between ages of 20-27.5 with a child and at least 2 partners, can’t that be dished out from an EU server for EU users?

>If I want a worldwide ad (is that even a thing?)

With regards to targeting: yes, you can target any country (and all of them).

With regards to reach: yes, because you'll reach the user on pretty much any site/app with ads, so it's virtually "running worldwide" (from the user's point of view).

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#14

Post by teachingassist »

twobitshifter wrote: post #8
rich_sasha wrote: post #5

I can’t see why it would be devastating in practice. Why can’t the servers that deduce every little thing about the users be also based in EU? If I want a worldwide ad (is that even a thing?) for left-leaning horse owners between ages of 20-27.5 with a child and at least 2 partners, can’t that be dished out from an EU server for EU users?

I, an American, have a friend in France, where is our friendship stored? I send a message to my friend in France they send me one back, where are these two messages stored? We have a photo taken while traveling together in Belgium with 2 other Americans, what server? I could see this being a problem only effectively solved by a separate EU and US Facebook. It is not clear what data they are worried about transmission…

> We have a photo taken while traveling together in Belgium with 2 other Americans, what server?

EU GDPR is pretty clear that all of the cases which involve transferring data from the EU to the US fall under EU GDPR rules. It refers to the location of the data, not the citizenship or residency status of the individuals who are involved.

So, the photo that you took and uploaded within EU borders is theoretically in scope for EU GDPR - even if your French friend is not in the photo.

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#15

Post by pjc50 »

trasz wrote: post #10
twobitshifter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, an American, have a friend in France, where is our friendship stored? I send a message to my friend in France they send me one back, where are these two messages stored? We have a photo taken while traveling together in Belgium with 2 other Americans, what server? I could see this being a problem only effectively solved by a separate EU and US Facebook. It is not clear what data they are worried about transmission…

I suspect cases like this are a tiny minority. You could handle them by falling back to the current way of doing this, ie US servers, and still protect the vast majority of data that's not related to US citizens.

A tiny minority of Facebook users is millions of people. Lots of people have international family and friends. A fallback approach is infeasible for legal requirements, unless it's there for appealing the fine to a lower value.

The question is potentially very difficult, and could only be resolved by constructive engagement with the party making the rules.

Don't forget what happens when people travel.

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#16

Post by rich_sasha »

twobitshifter wrote: post #8
rich_sasha wrote: post #5

I can’t see why it would be devastating in practice. Why can’t the servers that deduce every little thing about the users be also based in EU? If I want a worldwide ad (is that even a thing?) for left-leaning horse owners between ages of 20-27.5 with a child and at least 2 partners, can’t that be dished out from an EU server for EU users?

I, an American, have a friend in France, where is our friendship stored? I send a message to my friend in France they send me one back, where are these two messages stored? We have a photo taken while traveling together in Belgium with 2 other Americans, what server? I could see this being a problem only effectively solved by a separate EU and US Facebook. It is not clear what data they are worried about transmission…

Good point. Is the ban more about where content is stored or how it is accessed? I guess there is nothing bad about you seeing a page served from Europe.

Otherwise, a lot of this data presumably isn’t covered by GDPR. You and your friend are ultimately user_ids with a relationship_id or sth, and these surely aren’t GDPR-controlled (but they point at details that are)

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#17

Post by messe »

trasz wrote: post #10
twobitshifter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, an American, have a friend in France, where is our friendship stored? I send a message to my friend in France they send me one back, where are these two messages stored? We have a photo taken while traveling together in Belgium with 2 other Americans, what server? I could see this being a problem only effectively solved by a separate EU and US Facebook. It is not clear what data they are worried about transmission…

I suspect cases like this are a tiny minority. You could handle them by falling back to the current way of doing this, ie US servers, and still protect the vast majority of data that's not related to US citizens.

> I suspect cases like this are a tiny minority.

Knowing people in other countries is a tiny minority? Maybe in the US, given its size, but it's pretty widespread and normal in Europe.

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#18

Post by jmclnx »

I wonder what would happen if Facebook choose to pull out of the EU with a large banner "Due to new EU regulations, we have to stop operations until regulations change".

Would there be a large public outcry ?

Me, I would like to see facebook, google, apple... reigned in, but they have a large bank account where that can "donate" to pols, so we will probably see a big loophole appear.

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#19

Post by jmclnx »

trasz wrote: post #11
hirundo wrote: post #7

> The case stems from European Union concerns that United States government surveillance may not respect the privacy rights of EU citizens These are valid concerns that I share as a U.S. citizen concerned about my own privacy from government surveillance. It's appropriate for other countries to share them and to take action. But is it clear that government surveillance by EU countries is more respecting of privacy? I…

Would you, as an US citizen, be fine with Facebook transferring all your data to another country with no control over it?

People using facebook ? They do not care at all about where, how and volume of their data. All they want is "pointy/clicky" access to numb their minds.

But storing data outside the US, where would US people get their pics from should facebook fold, I will loose my best and free Backup Servise, the NSA :)

Re: Facebook faces ‘devastating’ EU-to-US data transfer ban

#20

Post by MaxBarraclough »

amelius wrote: post #12
twobitshifter wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, an American, have a friend in France, where is our friendship stored? I send a message to my friend in France they send me one back, where are these two messages stored? We have a photo taken while traveling together in Belgium with 2 other Americans, what server? I could see this being a problem only effectively solved by a separate EU and US Facebook. It is not clear what data they are worried about transmission…

> I, an American, have a friend in France, where is our friendship stored? Sounds almost philosophical. I have a friend. We both have brains. In which brain is our friendship stored?

If you're both cryonically frozen, is the friendship suspended? Does it spring back into being when you're both defrosted, arising from the process of living? By this account, friendships aren't purely a matter of data storage.

If we're feeling especially poetic, we could make the case that friendships can live on despite the death of one of the participants.

Also, do we always assume a binary friendship of exactly two participants?

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