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Colonial Pipeline Paid Hackers Nearly $5M in Ransom

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Re: Colonial Pipeline Paid Hackers Nearly $5M in Ransom

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what's way more effective at stopping gas hoarding so it's available for someone who really wants/needs it? Doubling the price per gallon. Anti-price gouging laws caused the shortage, just like with toilet paper and PPE last year.

Price of gold and silver is at its peak and people are buying it more than ever convinced it will somehow become extinct. The people who have money to hoard gas are also the people who have the money to hoard gas at double the price. These are not individuals with any knowledge of economics - theyre not doing it for trade, they're doing it out of belief.

"The people who have money to hoard gas", in the current environment, is as worthwhile a qualifier as "the people who have shoes to hoard gas". They're both necessary for going out to get gas, but neither is limiting in any important way. The people hoarding gas had a particular combination of gas containers, lawnmowers, and free time. I want the gas stations hoarding the gas and then trying to figure out what price will make them the most money by pricing high enough to just barely sell out by the end of a shortage.

Last year when all the grocery stores were running out of staples, I was unluckily traveling for work where there are no grocery stores. Upon returning, I conveniently found that my neighborhood co-op still had eggs because, while almost all eggs had been sold out, no one wanted to hoard $7.50/dz eggs, meaning I had the opportunity to get eggs if I really wanted them. I was able to buy eggs and did so, adjusting my habits accordingly to operate on fewer (but not zero) eggs. Everyone else who had visited that store had the same opportunity, and they also had the chance to compare their own desire for eggs against others' desires to recognize that they could do with fewer, as could I. At the end of the day, having reduced amounts of something I want is way less impactful than having none.

The only problem here is if gas stations talk to each other to set a price, but that is collusion, and is illegal independent of gouging laws.

Re: Colonial Pipeline Paid Hackers Nearly $5M in Ransom

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who would be hurt by such an increase, absent already-in-place assistance, constitute the vast majority of people. And, unfortunately, nobody is helped by "can be dealt with" -- the policies to prevent their pain, and to prevent disadvantaged folks from being disproportionately impacted by such an increase, need to be in place before the increase. The reason, which is likely apparent to both of us and ever…

> The people who would be hurt by such an increase, absent already-in-place assistance, constitute the vast majority of people. and so you suggest hurting the vast majority of people even more? That's right, your suggested approach of keeping artificially-low-prices-that-allow-hoarding leads to zero gas at the pumps, and zero gas at the pumps hurts the vast majority of people very directly and very effectively. Allow…

>and so you suggest hurting the vast majority of people even more?

1. More people are hurt by price gouging of products with inelastic demand than hurt by limiting the price increase.

2. A completely floating gas price disproportionately affects disadvantaged folks who have no alternative, even when there are no outages.

I mean, I totally agree with OP, there's a straightforward solution: set up a government program that insulates people from the effects of a floating price proportionately to how disadvantaged they are, and then, after that, let the gas price float. That way we get your idea without hurting anyone! Win-win.

Re: Colonial Pipeline Paid Hackers Nearly $5M in Ransom

#513
post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these ransoms are net good. I'd rather greedy hackers shake them down for money then having the country get crippled by political terrorists or enemy nation states that can't be negotiated or reasoned with. There are lots of infrastructure management teams taking security more seriously than they were a month ago. That alone is worth more than $5M

I’d rather we pay the $5M in ransom, and then $5T to track the hackers down and eliminate them. Certainly someone died due to the pipeline shutdown. Eliminating the hackers would be fully justified.

Is this intentionally absurd? $5 trillion to kill some hackers?

Re: Colonial Pipeline Paid Hackers Nearly $5M in Ransom

#514
What a difference a day makes. Yesterday the ransomware guys were on the top of the world pressing their advantage. Today their servers have all been compromised and all their crypto wallets have been emptied and the entire group has now sworn off doing any more ransomware heists. Nothing like a nation state rattling your cage to have you re-assessing your priorities.

Re: Colonial Pipeline Paid Hackers Nearly $5M in Ransom

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A price increase that effectively stops people from hoarding gas would be equally as effective at stopping people who need gas from affording it.

You can't buy gas that isn't there. Anti-gouging laws simply result in no gas available.

What price do you suppose is high enough to effectively stop hoarding?

Re: Colonial Pipeline Paid Hackers Nearly $5M in Ransom

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know. Did any of it matter? It was bad when people started hoarding gas. Just a few unfathomably stupid people - as always in this country. If idiots didn’t hoard gas, nothing would really have gone wrong. The preppers are the other side of the same coin. The only thing they seem to never run out of is toilet paper. Who the fuck cares? Pentesters have the same energy. They tell you about what software not to…

You know what's way more effective at stopping gas hoarding so it's available for someone who really wants/needs it? Doubling the price per gallon. Anti-price gouging laws caused the shortage, just like with toilet paper and PPE last year.

I disagree that a higher price will dissuade hoarders from hoarding; you've just validated their notion that gas is getting more valuable and more scarce. See: deflation.

Re: Colonial Pipeline Paid Hackers Nearly $5M in Ransom

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't buy gas that isn't there. Anti-gouging laws simply result in no gas available.

What price do you suppose is high enough to effectively stop hoarding?

Keep raising the price until the traffic to your gas station is at sustainable levels.

Re: Colonial Pipeline Paid Hackers Nearly $5M in Ransom

#518
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However it is my understanding that paying ransoms to save human lives is technically illegal to You are wrong.

I did some more research and it seems I am substantially correct; paying a ransom to a terrorist organization is illegal.

Substantially correct? Paying ransoms is legal except for a very limited set of payment recipients.

Re: Colonial Pipeline Paid Hackers Nearly $5M in Ransom

#520
post #201

The fact this was paid off, and paid off so rapidly means that targeting major infrastructure for massive payoffs is going to become more and more prominent. The next time though, it'll be $50M. I work with people in the oil fields and I know the numbers they are playing with and the fact that a single well being down can easily be $100,000 lost per hour. So obviously they want these systems back up fast. $5M for shu…

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