Live data from Hacker News

TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

reuters.com

181–190 of 511 posts

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire purpose of business regulation is to protect the people. People choosing to give up this protection is the irony. For example. Tobacco kills people. Government looks out for the interests of the people and regulates Big Tobacco. So Big Tobacco moves to a place where it is unregulated and free to distribute tobacco even to minors. People "IRONICALLY" against their own self interest follow the company becaus…

I suppose you would have the government approve every individual action you take to ensure it isn’t against the interest of “the people”. I’m just glad there’s still enough voters who don’t think like you, to be honest. That concerns me a lot more than how dangerous the products in the store are.

You suppose wrong. I'm kind of moderate. Seeing that I never said anything otherwise but you made a baseless supposition out of nowhere I'm guessing you're pro business in favor of total deregulation.

Make no mistake. The purpose of business regulation is to protect the people. This is absolutely true.

Execution of such regulations has unintended consequences though.

Regulating business harms profits which harms jobs and in turn harms people who could have had the jobs. Harmed profits also harms the owners of the businesses who are also people.

So basically there's a feedback loop here. You make the law for the purpose of protecting people but you are also harming people at the same time.

I'm a moderate or undecided because this loop presents a practical and moral dilemma. There's a balance somewhere but no truly one knows where and the complexities of society make it so that civilization will never arrive at this balance. Society tends to oscillate wildly around this equilibrium point migrating between the two extremes of pro business and pro "the people."

Tobacco is just one example. A lot of people think of tobacco as cookies, so if that's too tame for you then replace that example with Big Pharma and the opioid crisis or The dumping of toxic waste into Toms River by Big Chemical.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#182
post #65

Is automotive industry all that EU cares about? What about IoT/robotics? The fact that TSMC want to build only their older fab here is really disappointing to me.

Older lithography is what European automakers need, and the same can be said for robotics. The only reason for EU to demand fabrication of leading edge chips in Europe is hubris. How many laptops and mobile phones, in percent terms relative to those respective markets, are assembled in Europe?

I've actually always wondered why automakers never try to make consumer electronics. They wouldn't even need to compete with Apple or Dell; would you consider an Audi or Toyota laptop in place of a Panasonic Toughbook?

Caterpillar does it with phones[1], and their main business is heavy industry. Why not auto manufacturers? Could easier access to smaller process nodes incentivize them to branch out into new markets like that?

[1]: https://www.catphones.com/

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not, which is the reason it will end up in nukes. There are a ton of well researched papers on this. Taiwan is well dug in and any invasion perpetration would be seen months in advance. To be clear, if the USA defense of Taiwan leads to the extinction of the human race, so be it. We should have destroyed nazi germany in 1939. Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum. We are not worthy to survive if we do not defend democrac…

As someone born after WW2, in Germany, I'm pretty glad that people back then didn't think like you. What's the point of defending democracy if there is nothing but a radioactive wasteland in which to set up free elections?

Telling your rival "I have a weapon but I am never going to use it" is about as useful as not having the weapon at all. Portraying yourself as an irrational actor willing to do anything to get your way is rational when you consider it's in response to China saying theyre willing to invade an island no matter the consequences. If that were true they wouldve invaded already. Both superpowers are bluffing.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#184
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, Taiwan's estimation of the U.S. talent base is rather low: '"TSMC chairman and founder Morris Chang warned last month of higher operating costs and a thin talent pool for the U.S. plans in a rare public speech attended by Wei and chairman Mark Liu. "In the United States, the level of professional dedication is no match to that in Taiwan, at least for engineers," Chang said. He warned that "short-ter…

> In the United States, the level of professional dedication is no match to that in Taiwan, at least for engineers What does this even mean? That US engineers expect benefits and work-life balance?

There are just a lot more semi-conductor engineers in Taiwan than in the US. Quick Googling suggests the pay gap is immense. China is luring a lot of Taiwanese talent partly due to the over-supply of engineers.

A similar situation exists WRT to China and US mechanical engineers: in China you can very assemble a team to build physical stuff in ~2 weeks whereas finding the same talent in the US would take months and cost a lot more.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone born after WW2, in Germany, I'm pretty glad that people back then didn't think like you. What's the point of defending democracy if there is nothing but a radioactive wasteland in which to set up free elections?

Telling your rival "I have a weapon but I am never going to use it" is about as useful as not having the weapon at all. Portraying yourself as an irrational actor willing to do anything to get your way is rational when you consider it's in response to China saying theyre willing to invade an island no matter the consequences. If that were true they wouldve invaded already. Both superpowers are bluffing.

I thought generally you tell your rivals that you only use your nukes when they use their nukes first.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#186
post #131
post #65

Is automotive industry all that EU cares about? What about IoT/robotics? The fact that TSMC want to build only their older fab here is really disappointing to me.

EU is loosely coupled peace union with a lot of sovereignty left to the individual states. If I remember correctly, ones Rupert Murdoch famously said that it’s impossible to find a phone number to call. So, It’s probably not up to the EU to care about automotive, that must be Germany. France and Spain likely cares about other things and no one cares about cutting edge chips. EU can push from the top by easing state a…

> If I remember correctly, ones Rupert Murdoch famously said that it’s impossible to find a phone number to call.

Do the HN rules of assuming good faith apply to him as well? /s

https://europa.eu/european-union/contact/call-us_en

Please don't signal boost easily falsifiable claims like this. The function of it is to sow division and prevent proper nuanced discussion.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#187

The USA is also willing to defend Taiwan and currently the US has carrier groups in the south China sea. This suggests that the idea of building chips in the US may be a diplomatic courtesy and arguably an incentive.

I would argue that by the time China comes to take Taiwan (when, not if), the US will be in a position where it is unwilling/able to expend the lives and funds required to provide a prolonged defense of a piece of land firmly in China's front yard. Personally, I think we're at the point where the US would consider the costs of Taiwan's defense well beyond any potential benefits. It's too economically integrated with…

The Taiwan situation is not the same as Hong Kong's. In Hong Kong theyre merely speeding up the integration of a territory they already have full sovereignty over. The current government in China has never ruled over Taiwan. A lot can happen in 20-30 years and future regimes may be not be as eager to risk war over an island that's never been a part of their country during their lifetime.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#188
post #165

its always interesting to read the comments on HN regarding China/Taiwan situation. Chinese invasion (Taiwan) threat is always there. It didn't stop when Nixon visit China and it didn't stop when American abandoned Taiwan to have a business relationship with China for more than 40 years. the threat is so old now. there are some running jokes in Taiwan like "China threatening to invade Taiwan since my grandpa is alive…

I am generally on the 'wrong' side of these conversations on HN, but... > did South Korea stop everything whenever North Korea did a Nuke test? I believe the two threats are not remotely equivalent. In a world of MAD, nuclear weapons are only a credible defensive deterrent, because offensive use of them is suicide. The US would start a nuclear war, in response to a North Korean first-strike. Whereas with respect to C…

In real life, people sometimes commit suicide in what's called "suicide by cop", they attack police so the police kill them.

The idea that we or China can't have a commander in chief who commits suicide by war, or otherwise behaves irresponsibly and takes the rest of us with them, strikes me as a tad optimistic.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#189
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, that just raises the stakes so that losing would be much more embarrassing (as if that's the most important thing in geopolitics). I mean, imagine the scenario where Taiwan becomes a U.S. state and then China invades and takes it anyways. And suppose the U.S. can't take it back without all-out (possibly nuclear) war, so they back down and let China have it. That's a possible outcome that would have to b…

Suppose china invades Taiwan. Then what? They become a pariah state and lose all of their international trading partners for things like oil. Something like 50% of Chinese agriculture is dependent on foreign oil inputs...

Not sure Russia, Iran, or the Saudis give a shit about Taiwan.

China only loses its oil shipments if it can't secure shipping through the Indian ocean or build an overland alternative. It won't make a move until those are complete.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#190
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.yahoo.com/were-going-to-lose-fast-us-air-force-...

If you Google "Taiwan hard to invade" or the like you will get more educated reads on this. The necessary preparations on the Chinese part are well seen on satellites. China would 100% win at a bloody cost without a US involvement. With, they would loose. This is today, without China coming to be on level with the US military. Over time they will catch up. Today with US involvement China would loose. The facts on the…

no, they can't win.... it is 500 miles of distance, and you need total dominance to get your troops there, and maintain and supply an invasion fleet.

Hitler couldn't cross the 50 miles english channel back in 1940.... the operation 'sea lion' was doomed to fail. Even the Allies' normandy invasion, was hard and it took total sea and air dominance. China could surround Taiwan and blockade it, but it can't keep that blockaded is itself it would be blockaded by the US and totally sealed internationally. It will be starved economically.

Also, keep in mind, during the cold war, USSR had to give up the sealing/blocading of Berlin, as the US kept supplying it with food via air. The US could have given it away, as it was far from the West's border, but it didn't.

The US will do the same this time, as the public from both sides of the political spectrum, are very against CCP. The only people that string along with China, are some elite media companies like Disney, NBA and of course Apple.

The average Joe doesn't like that their job went to china, and they would be glad if the US put up a fight.

Post reply on HN