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TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

reuters.com

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Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#171

Post by myrandomcomment »

adrianN wrote: post #161
myrandomcomment wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not, which is the reason it will end up in nukes. There are a ton of well researched papers on this. Taiwan is well dug in and any invasion perpetration would be seen months in advance. To be clear, if the USA defense of Taiwan leads to the extinction of the human race, so be it. We should have destroyed nazi germany in 1939. Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum. We are not worthy to survive if we do not defend democrac…

As someone born after WW2, in Germany, I'm pretty glad that people back then didn't think like you. What's the point of defending democracy if there is nothing but a radioactive wasteland in which to set up free elections?

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Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#172

Post by artificial »

m00x wrote: post #169
ChuckMcM wrote: post #157

Geopolitically this makes a lot of sense. Will be interesting to see how China reacts as it moves forward. If Intel is serious this time about letting third parties into their fabs then it could be quite the reversal of fortune. However, as I've said in the past Intel is most likely to do this with "alternate" process streams, in order to not expose their full capabilities to competitors. High hopes but low expectati…

Why China? Most of the major chip fabs aren't made in China. They're mostly made in Taiwan, South Korea and the US. Unless we're strictly talking about TSMC, which does have 2/18 fabs in China.

The location of Taiwan to the mainland is the perceived concern with the Chinese navy and the reach of the American military. Recently a squadron was moved from Guam. China has been expanding its influence/territory via islands in the South China Sea over the last decade. I think it’s a strategic concern.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#173

Post by adrianN »

oogabooga123 wrote: post #107
neonological wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire purpose of business regulation is to protect the people. People choosing to give up this protection is the irony. For example. Tobacco kills people. Government looks out for the interests of the people and regulates Big Tobacco. So Big Tobacco moves to a place where it is unregulated and free to distribute tobacco even to minors. People "IRONICALLY" against their own self interest follow the company becaus…

I suppose you would have the government approve every individual action you take to ensure it isn’t against the interest of “the people”. I’m just glad there’s still enough voters who don’t think like you, to be honest. That concerns me a lot more than how dangerous the products in the store are.

I don't think you need to argue against such a strawman. Do you think that literally all regulation is bad? Governments shouldn't exist at all?

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#174

Post by [deleted] »

vkou wrote: post #165
MangoCoffee wrote: post #158

its always interesting to read the comments on HN regarding China/Taiwan situation. Chinese invasion (Taiwan) threat is always there. It didn't stop when Nixon visit China and it didn't stop when American abandoned Taiwan to have a business relationship with China for more than 40 years. the threat is so old now. there are some running jokes in Taiwan like "China threatening to invade Taiwan since my grandpa is alive…

I am generally on the 'wrong' side of these conversations on HN, but... > did South Korea stop everything whenever North Korea did a Nuke test? I believe the two threats are not remotely equivalent. In a world of MAD, nuclear weapons are only a credible defensive deterrent, because offensive use of them is suicide. The US would start a nuclear war, in response to a North Korean first-strike. Whereas with respect to C…

[deleted]

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#175

Post by scythe »

crocodiletears wrote: post #111
SCAQTony wrote: post #48

The USA is also willing to defend Taiwan and currently the US has carrier groups in the south China sea. This suggests that the idea of building chips in the US may be a diplomatic courtesy and arguably an incentive.

I would argue that by the time China comes to take Taiwan (when, not if), the US will be in a position where it is unwilling/able to expend the lives and funds required to provide a prolonged defense of a piece of land firmly in China's front yard. Personally, I think we're at the point where the US would consider the costs of Taiwan's defense well beyond any potential benefits. It's too economically integrated with…

>Personally, I think we're at the point where the US would consider the costs of Taiwan's defense well beyond any potential benefits. It's too economically integrated with China, and the sheer number of bodies it would take aren't worth the moral victory.

It's not merely a moral victory. And while I myself would pick up a rifle for 24 million people, it's not even that.

You can't simply let your allies be invaded. It's lethal to all of your other alliances. America failing to defend Taiwan is the end of the Pax Americana, and America knows it.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#176

Post by mannerheim »

xwolfi wrote: post #133
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has also supplied both weapons and technology that are currently threatening Taiwan: https://www.businessinsider.com/european-companies-are-suppl... France alone was the #2 supplier from 2015-2019: https://euro-sd.com/2020/03/news/16688/sipri-biggest-arms-ex... You really can't blame Taiwan for not rushing to put its most cutting edge expertise in the EU.

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That's false. France hasn't exported arms to Taiwan since 2005 according to SIPRI https://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/values.php>. All Taiwanese arms imports since 2015 have come from the United States.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#177

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

KirillPanov wrote: post #101
DoreenMichele wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kneejerk downvotes here make me ashamed of HN. Lots of subs on Reddit grew tremendously during the pandemic. I'm guessing HN did too and has a worse case than usual of "eternal September."

Sadly, no; it's a side effect of how the HN voting system works -- it encourages virtue-signaling rather than curiosity.

Rather than that, maybe people on HN want corporations to pay their taxes?

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#178

Post by scythe »

rapsey wrote: post #148
myrandomcomment wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not, which is the reason it will end up in nukes. There are a ton of well researched papers on this. Taiwan is well dug in and any invasion perpetration would be seen months in advance. To be clear, if the USA defense of Taiwan leads to the extinction of the human race, so be it. We should have destroyed nazi germany in 1939. Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum. We are not worthy to survive if we do not defend democrac…

https://news.yahoo.com/were-going-to-lose-fast-us-air-force-...

>a war game that started with a Chinese biological attack

That's a big asterisk. Biological warfare so far is the stuff of doomsday prognosticators. China isn't crazy enough to use biological weapons because they know we might (possibly even should) consider that a nuclear-level escalation.

And if they did use biological weapons, we might lose Taiwan, but we certainly wouldn't stop fighting. That kind of monstrosity cannot and will not go unanswered.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#179

Post by tasogare »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #114
lousken wrote: post #65

Is automotive industry all that EU cares about? What about IoT/robotics? The fact that TSMC want to build only their older fab here is really disappointing to me.

The EU has also supplied both weapons and technology that are currently threatening Taiwan: https://www.businessinsider.com/european-companies-are-suppl... France alone was the #2 supplier from 2015-2019: https://euro-sd.com/2020/03/news/16688/sipri-biggest-arms-ex... You really can't blame Taiwan for not rushing to put its most cutting edge expertise in the EU.

France also sold a good part of weapons that is used to defend Taiwan (the Mirage fleet).

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#180

Post by magicsmoke »

mediaman wrote: post #13
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #2

I have no knowledge of the situation, why did they choose Arizona?

Interestingly this came as a loss to Washington, where there is already a significant fab owned by TSMC called WaferTech. Their facility is on the WA side of the Portland suburbs. Many felt WA was in the running because of the talent already there. This caused concerns that the future of the WaferTech fab facility is dimmer than before, since it probably makes less sense to pump billions more into it in the future.

Also surprising is that TSMC was recently hit by water shortages due to a drought in Taiwan. Arizona isn't exactly drought resistant, yet they built there instead of rainy Washington.
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