China lands rover on Mars • Hacker News Board

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#61

Post by magicsmoke » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

xupybd wrote: post #51

tfcata wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that some of those impressions you got about China are manufactured as part of the politics. Things can't be so torn, can they? Now it's your job to figure out which ones are manufactured and which ones are not.

I truly believe that the majority of Chinese civilians are well treated under their current government. I also think the treatment of the Uyghurs is scary. That the control of media flowing into China is so controlled that the people are not free. The lack of democracy means there are not enough checks and balances to keep the people free. The way the one child policy has been enforced is not humane. The oppression o…

If you're in the Americas, Europe, or Australia that will never happen in your lifetime. Think about how plausible the US annexing China and controlling it would be. Now flip that around and double the difficulty.

If you're in southeast asia the calculus changes. But the cost benefit analysis really leans against annexing hostile locals these days unless it's some nationalist mythology like China and Taiwan. And if you're in southeast asia I'd say future heat waves and climate disasters means you'll be more likely heading north into China than them heading south.

If it's a soft ideological takeover you're envisioning then that's really the responsibility of the democratic society you live in. Democracy falls when people no longer believe in its ideas or that it is an effective way of governance.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#62

Post by insert_coin » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:05 AM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #21

> China had to develop all space technology on their own. It’s hard not to laugh at that statement. China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. To the point U.S. companies factor it in when doing business there. Just search this - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+steals&t=fpas&ia=web They also had the “thousand talents program”. That’s not to say what they did was not impressive, it was. But it’s also a lot…

Everyone stands in the shoulders of those who came before, and that is a good thing.

The US didn't invent physics, didn't invent gunpowder, oil, math, textiles, ROCKETS, etc. But they did "acquire" them all, somehow.

> China runs the largest IP theft program in the world.

Most IP has been given to them by "businessmen" trying to gain and edge and betting wrong. That is not theft, if anything, is stupidity. To the degree China has stolen trade secrets, do you really think no other country has a corporate spy program? Do you not know who the biggest ip "thief" in the world is?

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#63

Post by aardvarkr » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:06 AM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #55

hourislate wrote: post #14

This is good, there should always be friendly competition between Nations to drive Space Exploration. I hope this lights a bigger fire under the ass of the current US Administration and NASA to push ahead harder, faster and farther. The US doesn't know how lucky they are to have SpaceX and Musk.

The U.S. is lucky to have a billionaire made so through public funds?

Absolutely. He wasn't given $100B, he took a grant from the government to build something that they wanted and was able to parlay that into two incredible companies that are changing the world as we know it. You can attack the man for who he is, what he says, and whatever else you want, but saying that we didn't get something of value for the investment that the US made is ridiculous. He got filthy rich but we all got something in return.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#64

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:06 AM UTC

soperj wrote: post #46

lettergram wrote: post #21

> China had to develop all space technology on their own. It’s hard not to laugh at that statement. China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. To the point U.S. companies factor it in when doing business there. Just search this - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+steals&t=fpas&ia=web They also had the “thousand talents program”. That’s not to say what they did was not impressive, it was. But it’s also a lot…

If the thousand talents program means this achievement doesn't belong to them, then landing on the moon belongs to the Germans.

[deleted]

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#65

Post by aardvarkr » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:08 AM UTC

M_bara wrote: post #52

newacct583 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX is no doubt cool. Nonetheless we're discussing China landing its first rover on a planet NASA's been flying a helicopter around for the last month. I mean, both are great accomplishments, but if you have to treat it as a competition and pick a winner...

Not to pour water on your statement, I'd say that the rate of change counts more. Nailing your first landing attempt on a powered descent (rocket-crate equivalent) is no mean feat. I'm actually pleasantly surprised given the high failure rate of Mars missions.

I went from earning $10K/yr as a student to a $120K income full time over the course of a month, why aren't you worshipping me and writing news articles about my accomplishment? Is it because rate of change doesn't count as much as you think it does?

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#66

Post by cameldrv » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:09 AM UTC

soperj wrote: post #46

lettergram wrote: post #21

> China had to develop all space technology on their own. It’s hard not to laugh at that statement. China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. To the point U.S. companies factor it in when doing business there. Just search this - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+steals&t=fpas&ia=web They also had the “thousand talents program”. That’s not to say what they did was not impressive, it was. But it’s also a lot…

If the thousand talents program means this achievement doesn't belong to them, then landing on the moon belongs to the Germans.

The original claim was "China had to develop all space technology on their own", which is not correct. No one claimed that there wasn't German V-2 technology used in the U.S. space program. Likewise, von Braun acknowledged that their work built on that of Robert Goddard in the U.S.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#67

Post by coliveira » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:09 AM UTC

spicyramen wrote: post #15

economusty wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also steal research, but, I understand the point you are trying to make.

When you look at the history of space travel. One of the first space programs (NASA) originated from Germany developments. North Korea nuclear weapons from Soviet undercover collaboration. Not familiar with specifics for your claim above, but just stealing is a miniscule part of what is really required for this type of effort

Space research in the US started before the Germans joined, but it never worked... The US had to bring Germans to make the whole thing successful.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#68

Post by coliveira » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:10 AM UTC

techdragon wrote: post #18

FooBarWidget wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that China is banned from the ISS and other kinds of space technology collaboration programs. China had to develop all space technology on their own. Some perspective on how significant.

Not downplaying the achievements as they just achieved something the Soviet and Russian programs could not even at the height of their powers during the space race. But there are plenty of countries most notably Russia that have allowed China to purchase military/dual use technologies. Hardware such as advanced fighter jets, missile and rocket technology, and there’s also the huge numbers of tertiary education studen…

And the US had to bring German scientists to have a space program.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#69

Post by aardvarkr » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:10 AM UTC

insert_coin wrote: post #50

chii wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are those not stolen stealing is involuntary on the part of the entity being stolen from. Are those talents being enslaved to produce the IP for the US?

> China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. To the point U.S. companies factor it in when doing business there. This sounds pretty voluntary.

Ah yes, voluntary theft. That's a thing that we can justify now, huh?

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#70

Post by aardvarkr » Sat, May 15, 2021, 4:12 AM UTC

bhy wrote: post #42

lettergram wrote: post #21

> China had to develop all space technology on their own. It’s hard not to laugh at that statement. China runs the largest IP theft program in the world. To the point U.S. companies factor it in when doing business there. Just search this - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china+steals&t=fpas&ia=web They also had the “thousand talents program”. That’s not to say what they did was not impressive, it was. But it’s also a lot…

Just remember, by your definition, the US "stole" textile technology from the UK. [1] [1] https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-na...

Absolutely they did, but that's like saying your neighbor offended your great great great great great grandfather 143 years ago so you're justified in sleeping with his wife.