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TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

reuters.com

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Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#141

Post by MangoCoffee »

justicezyx wrote: post #116
SCAQTony wrote: post #48

The USA is also willing to defend Taiwan and currently the US has carrier groups in the south China sea. This suggests that the idea of building chips in the US may be a diplomatic courtesy and arguably an incentive.

Why not US help China unite? Why US always are interested in dividing people?

look at the recent Taiwan election. the pan-green party won the presidential race with the highest votes in Taiwan history.

Taiwanese rejected reunification with China. Taiwanese rejected CCP.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#142

Post by vineyardmike »

justicezyx wrote: post #116
SCAQTony wrote: post #48

The USA is also willing to defend Taiwan and currently the US has carrier groups in the south China sea. This suggests that the idea of building chips in the US may be a diplomatic courtesy and arguably an incentive.

Why not US help China unite? Why US always are interested in dividing people?

There is no uniting to do. They’re two separate countries where one wants to own the other

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#143

Post by xwolfi »

crocodiletears wrote: post #111
SCAQTony wrote: post #48

The USA is also willing to defend Taiwan and currently the US has carrier groups in the south China sea. This suggests that the idea of building chips in the US may be a diplomatic courtesy and arguably an incentive.

I would argue that by the time China comes to take Taiwan (when, not if), the US will be in a position where it is unwilling/able to expend the lives and funds required to provide a prolonged defense of a piece of land firmly in China's front yard. Personally, I think we're at the point where the US would consider the costs of Taiwan's defense well beyond any potential benefits. It's too economically integrated with…

But I think people vastly overestimate the difficulty to relocate any of these elsewhere. Give it a few years and it s all running the same anywhere.

It's only a matter of cost: training an american to do the job of a chinese for the same cost is impossible today because american would refuse to produce these under the same condition: they prefer to enjoy using the chips rather than making them.

The good news is that the chinese will eventually come around and start changing their expectation.

If you think China cant change, look at their drastic demographic changes: they can become what we became, they just take longer.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#144

Post by mr_toad »

spamizbad wrote: post #112
jeeeb wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia is a relatively small market located far from global supply chains with relatively high energy, capital and labour costs. I think we need to be selective about which industries we promote, especially if the industry will only be viable with large government subsidies.

How much low wage work is found in semiconductor manufacturing? In the US at least, most of the manufacturing technician jobs require at least an associates degree in a STEM field or mechanical/technical certificates from trade schools.

I doubt it’s much. The wafer production is almost entirely automated. The clean rooms don’t even have oxygen.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#145

Post by myrandomcomment »

rapsey wrote: post #127
myrandomcomment wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA must defend Taiwan even at the risk of nuclear war. The dollars position in the world allows the USA to run its current accounting. Allowing China to take Taiwan destroys the economy and the position of the USA in the world. That being said I feel that Taiwan is a vibrant democracy that is worth defending, and yes I did my time as a solider and understand the horrors of it.

The US defence of Taiwan is unfortunately just posturing. Should China commit to taking Taiwan they will do it. US military simulations have confirmed this again and again. Chinese military capability is strong enough to overwhelm the US Taiwan forces.

No it is not, which is the reason it will end up in nukes. There are a ton of well researched papers on this. Taiwan is well dug in and any invasion perpetration would be seen months in advance.

To be clear, if the USA defense of Taiwan leads to the extinction of the human race, so be it. We should have destroyed nazi germany in 1939. Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum. We are not worthy to survive if we do not defend democracy. I say this as a veteran and parent of kids that are just starting their life.

Edit: downvoted by the China accounts. Love it. Post facts. This is hacker news. We operate on data. I applaud today's Mars landing by China. I applaud all they have done as county to pull their people from poverty. The CPC has done amazing things to bring China forward, but it is has had its time. It is time trust in the people for leadership in the future. A democratic republic is what the world hopes for. China has so much to offer to the world.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#146

Post by totalZero »

systemvoltage wrote: post #125
crocodiletears wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that by the time China comes to take Taiwan (when, not if), the US will be in a position where it is unwilling/able to expend the lives and funds required to provide a prolonged defense of a piece of land firmly in China's front yard. Personally, I think we're at the point where the US would consider the costs of Taiwan's defense well beyond any potential benefits. It's too economically integrated with…

Our memory is fading. Just 5-6 years ago, Intel fabs had the best process technology and TSMC was behind. No one could have guessed what the state of the world would be in 2021 with any significant certainty. Who knows what would happen in another 5 years? We are so myopic when it comes to the bias towards the status quo. We give more weight to what the current situation is and then extrapolate that the future will b…

Your last sentence is exactly on point. What's sad is that we spend far more on naval power projection than on detours around obvious risks to prosperity and peace, such as the semiconductor supply chain. We are barely spending 50 billion dollars on domestic semiconductor fabrication in the upcoming legislation, despite acknowledging that the economic costs of the semiconductor shortage are far greater. Contrast that 50 billion number with Apple's expenditures on buybacks and dividends over the past decade. They aren't even in the same order of magnitude.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#147

Post by scsilver »

neonological wrote: post #26
epistasis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really like the euphemism of "business friendly" when it means "companies don't have to pay for their externalities." California is extremely entrepreneur-friendly, and have absolutely massive amounts of business compare to Arizona or Texas. The externalities are not minor either, there are 23 superfund sites in Santa Clara county from Silicon Valley's early years, where they did not bother to properly dispos…

>California is extremely entrepreneur-friendly, and have absolutely massive amounts of business compare to Arizona or Texas. I don't know if you've been following the news lately of a bunch of companies moving OUT of California to Texas. One of these people is Elon Musk. And guess what? I have a source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez90rXhMWjE I'm not saying California is wrong. Far from it. They're right. These l…

California is one of the most economically richest places on earth, and I only say that from the point of view of a world traveler and without bias.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#148

Post by rapsey »

myrandomcomment wrote: post #145
rapsey wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US defence of Taiwan is unfortunately just posturing. Should China commit to taking Taiwan they will do it. US military simulations have confirmed this again and again. Chinese military capability is strong enough to overwhelm the US Taiwan forces.

No it is not, which is the reason it will end up in nukes. There are a ton of well researched papers on this. Taiwan is well dug in and any invasion perpetration would be seen months in advance. To be clear, if the USA defense of Taiwan leads to the extinction of the human race, so be it. We should have destroyed nazi germany in 1939. Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum. We are not worthy to survive if we do not defend democrac…

https://news.yahoo.com/were-going-to-lose-fast-us-air-force-...

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#149

Post by wahern »

blibble wrote: post #123
ericbarrett wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hopeless for the EU—many of the necessary machines for any reasonably recent chip fab come from European companies, e.g. ASML.

buying a chisel doesn't make you a master sculptor

If you've been selling the most advanced, most capable chisels for generations, unassailable, while your client master sculptors exchange titles.... I don't know what that makes you--kingmaker doesn't quite fit--but it's not nothing. It might make you wary of getting too close (figuratively or physically) to any particular client, lest you risk falling from grace as your client invariably will.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#150

Post by icelancer »

jeeeb wrote: post #87
icelancer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their massive import/export taxes on anything related to technology basically kills any of those types of ideas, unfortunately.

Australia has some of the lowest import / export tariffs in the world. I.E. they’re generally zero or close to.

Tariffs, yes. Taxes, no. Simply comparing the cost of technology-based goods between AUS and USA/CAN - or worse, digital-based items - shows why Australia is not an attractive place for technology companies.
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