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TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

reuters.com

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Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#111

Post by crocodiletears »

SCAQTony wrote: post #48

The USA is also willing to defend Taiwan and currently the US has carrier groups in the south China sea. This suggests that the idea of building chips in the US may be a diplomatic courtesy and arguably an incentive.

I would argue that by the time China comes to take Taiwan (when, not if), the US will be in a position where it is unwilling/able to expend the lives and funds required to provide a prolonged defense of a piece of land firmly in China's front yard.

Personally, I think we're at the point where the US would consider the costs of Taiwan's defense well beyond any potential benefits. It's too economically integrated with China, and the sheer number of bodies it would take aren't worth the moral victory.

Hong Kong is the writing on the wall. China wishes to restore integrity to what it regards as its territory.

TSMC must open facilities in the west because its Taiwan facilities are too dangerous to leave in enemy hands. It has to invest in capital outside of any potential conflict zone if it plans to exists over the long-term as a profit-making entity.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#112

Post by spamizbad »

jeeeb wrote: post #86
jimmcslim wrote: post #17

I’m dismayed that Australia isn’t doing more to foster local fabs.

Australia is a relatively small market located far from global supply chains with relatively high energy, capital and labour costs. I think we need to be selective about which industries we promote, especially if the industry will only be viable with large government subsidies.

How much low wage work is found in semiconductor manufacturing? In the US at least, most of the manufacturing technician jobs require at least an associates degree in a STEM field or mechanical/technical certificates from trade schools.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#113

Post by 29athrowaway »

nradov wrote: post #102
neonological wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire purpose of business regulation is to protect the people. People choosing to give up this protection is the irony. For example. Tobacco kills people. Government looks out for the interests of the people and regulates Big Tobacco. So Big Tobacco moves to a place where it is unregulated and free to distribute tobacco even to minors. People "IRONICALLY" against their own self interest follow the company becaus…

Nanny states are far worse than tobacco.

Before "nanny state" regulations, food used to be sold in a decomposed or rotten state, it was exposed to all sorts of contamination and merchants mixed it with all sorts of non-food such as wood. Having weird digestive illnesses was very common back in the day, as well as dying from them.

Before "nanny state" regulations, you would work as much as your employer wanted you to work, you had no sick days, no vacation, no parental leave, no anything. Kids used to work in factories. If a woman got pregnant she would get fired from her job. If you got injured or sick at work then you would get fired as well.

Before "nanny state" regulations, medications were usually snake oil. The market was full of elixirs and magical tonics for well-being that were ultimately a scam.

Before "nanny state" regulations, you were free to dump any chemical you wanted anywhere you wanted. You were free to experiment with any animal you wanted in any way you wanted without any ethical or humane consideration whatsoever. You were free to scam any investor you wanted in any way you wanted... and you get the idea. Restaurant with rats? that was perfectly too.

"Nanny state" is one of the most profoundly idiotic terms ever coined. Some regulations can be annoying, but clearly we are better off now than 100 years ago.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#114

Post by AlchemistCamp »

lousken wrote: post #65

Is automotive industry all that EU cares about? What about IoT/robotics? The fact that TSMC want to build only their older fab here is really disappointing to me.

The EU has also supplied both weapons and technology that are currently threatening Taiwan: https://www.businessinsider.com/european-companies-are-suppl...

France alone was the #2 supplier from 2015-2019: https://euro-sd.com/2020/03/news/16688/sipri-biggest-arms-ex...

You really can't blame Taiwan for not rushing to put its most cutting edge expertise in the EU.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#115

Post by nr2x »

kristofferR wrote: post #103
neonological wrote: post #14

You guys ever wonder why they don't choose California? These factories have huge environmental impacts that California is not okay with. These factories produce massive amounts of waste that cannot be recycled. This is also very likely to be the same exact reason as to why these talks didn't go so well in Europe. Arizona like Texas is more business friendly at the expense of not looking out for the well being of peop…

CNBC did a great little mini-documentary about Arizona tech yesterday [1], and one of the covered aspects were the insane water demands that comes from fabs. Arizona doesn't exactly have an abundance of water, they're already depleting aquafers, before the fabs have begun operation (a typical fab uses 2-4 million gallons of water per day). [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCjsLXvyXH8

CNBC has been producing some really good content, very pleased the YT algo served it up for me.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#116

Post by justicezyx »

SCAQTony wrote: post #48

The USA is also willing to defend Taiwan and currently the US has carrier groups in the south China sea. This suggests that the idea of building chips in the US may be a diplomatic courtesy and arguably an incentive.

Why not US help China unite? Why US always are interested in dividing people?

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#117

Post by peteretep »

PKop wrote: post #109
echelon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US should invite Taiwan to become the 50-nth state. Perhaps several states, to give them more Senate votes. Numerous polls of the Taiwanese show that they would want to join the US if given the choice between independent statehood, joining the mainland, and joining the US. Plus, the US gets a nice permanent military base and gets to monitor all future Chinese submarine activity. If China attacks a US state, it wo…

Are you going to enlist to fight in a war to defend this territory that is magically claimed as a US state? What motivation will Americans have to fight and die for Taiwan? They will have none. >the US gets C'mon, this is not how geopolitics works. China could easily defend this land from US incursion and they aren't even letting Taiwan be independent let alone let US take it for themselves.

> What motivation will Americans have to fight and die for Taiwan?

Well if the Yanks are smart, the second it becomes a US state you strongly encourage two way migration so there are a bunch of square-jawed, grass-fed, All American kids living there that the US press can get exited about. Jack, Diane, and Tyrone getting shot at by the PLA is going to be a Big Fucking Deal.

Heck, if I was Taiwan I’d stop spending money on defence and just start spending money giving free university tuition to Americans.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#118

Post by CBLT »

justicezyx wrote: post #116
SCAQTony wrote: post #48

The USA is also willing to defend Taiwan and currently the US has carrier groups in the south China sea. This suggests that the idea of building chips in the US may be a diplomatic courtesy and arguably an incentive.

Why not US help China unite? Why US always are interested in dividing people?

Taiwanese people respond in polls that they see themselves as Taiwanese, not Chinese.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#119

Post by hyperdunc »

justicezyx wrote: post #116
SCAQTony wrote: post #48

The USA is also willing to defend Taiwan and currently the US has carrier groups in the south China sea. This suggests that the idea of building chips in the US may be a diplomatic courtesy and arguably an incentive.

Why not US help China unite? Why US always are interested in dividing people?

The only way to unite groups of people with fundamentally opposing political views is through oppression.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#120

Post by epistasis »

burlesona wrote: post #44
epistasis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really like the euphemism of "business friendly" when it means "companies don't have to pay for their externalities." California is extremely entrepreneur-friendly, and have absolutely massive amounts of business compare to Arizona or Texas. The externalities are not minor either, there are 23 superfund sites in Santa Clara county from Silicon Valley's early years, where they did not bother to properly dispos…

Having started and operated small businesses in California, North Carolina, and Texas, my experience was that California was by far more onerous and expensive than the other two (which were about the same).

This is a definition of "business friendly" that I can support!
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