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TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

reuters.com

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Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#61

Post by dillondoyle »

xenihn wrote: post #43
greatgoat420 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been done in the past, Taiwan is a special topic for the US, I don't know that they would let it get to that point without intervening either diplomatically or militarily.

Right, I'm just thinking that long-term military intervention to prevent capture/annexation of Taiwan is completely impossible, but short-term intervention meant to extract as many Taiwanese as possible prior to inevitable capitulation is very much an option.

Why do you think this?

I disagree, but am of the personal opinion that our advantage shrinks each year we don't seriously confront CCP.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#62

Post by GoOnThenDoTell »

snskzbs wrote: post #50
echelon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US should invite Taiwan to become the 50-nth state. Perhaps several states, to give them more Senate votes. Numerous polls of the Taiwanese show that they would want to join the US if given the choice between independent statehood, joining the mainland, and joining the US. Plus, the US gets a nice permanent military base and gets to monitor all future Chinese submarine activity. If China attacks a US state, it wo…

The day this is even seriously proposed, China invades Taiwan. And anyway, the vast majority of Americans wouldn't see and attack of a Taiwanese US state as a Pearl Harbor because its non sensical. Taiwan has 100 million people. Theres no way that population transfers to create the bonds necessary to make Taiwan “American” could occur. Hawaii had been a US colony for 50 years and mainland Americans had moved in displ…

23 million people (rather than 100)

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#63

Post by ahartmetz »

neonological wrote: post #14

You guys ever wonder why they don't choose California? These factories have huge environmental impacts that California is not okay with. These factories produce massive amounts of waste that cannot be recycled. This is also very likely to be the same exact reason as to why these talks didn't go so well in Europe. Arizona like Texas is more business friendly at the expense of not looking out for the well being of peop…

There is a lot of locally available know-how in Europe to handle ugly process chemicals cleanly - existing semiconductor fabs and chemicals factories (an important industry - BASF Ludwigshafen is the biggest chemicals complex in the world) are managing fine. I guess the problem is taxes, slow permissions bureaucracy (including environmental aspects), and lack of subsidies as discussed in other threads. Delays are probably most expensive due to the need to put the billions of capital to work while revenue per wafer is high.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#64

Post by snskzbs »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #38
echelon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US should invite Taiwan to become the 50-nth state. Perhaps several states, to give them more Senate votes. Numerous polls of the Taiwanese show that they would want to join the US if given the choice between independent statehood, joining the mainland, and joining the US. Plus, the US gets a nice permanent military base and gets to monitor all future Chinese submarine activity. If China attacks a US state, it wo…

I’ve never heard of this idea of granting Taiwan statehood. Is this actually a concept which has been seriously considered by public officials, ever?

It isn't a thing, because its nuts outside of a “manifest destiny” wet dream

Its the kinda nutty dream likely to start a war just by mentioning it.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#66

Post by ClumsyPilot »

snskzbs wrote: post #50
echelon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US should invite Taiwan to become the 50-nth state. Perhaps several states, to give them more Senate votes. Numerous polls of the Taiwanese show that they would want to join the US if given the choice between independent statehood, joining the mainland, and joining the US. Plus, the US gets a nice permanent military base and gets to monitor all future Chinese submarine activity. If China attacks a US state, it wo…

The day this is even seriously proposed, China invades Taiwan. And anyway, the vast majority of Americans wouldn't see and attack of a Taiwanese US state as a Pearl Harbor because its non sensical. Taiwan has 100 million people. Theres no way that population transfers to create the bonds necessary to make Taiwan “American” could occur. Hawaii had been a US colony for 50 years and mainland Americans had moved in displ…

Consider the history of chinese civil war, and that Nationalists which founded Taiwan were flirting with Nazism and have comitted mass murder and near-wipeout communists, which were predesessors of today's Beijing government.

So there is loads of bad blood and pergaps easiest thing to happen is gor generations to change under status quo and for memory of these atrocities to fade into the background.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#67

Post by gimmeThaBeet »

kingsuper20 wrote: post #32
cromka wrote: post #15

I don't think EU cuts deals with specific companies. What would TMSC expect here? That EU gave them money straight up? I don't know how this would work, but maybe I am missing something. If anything, EU would create a generic fund to subsidize any such investment coming from any company interested, but at EU level, it would definitely take time. Or they can talk to individual countries about subsidies, just like they…

>I don't think EU cuts deals with specific companies. Airbus?

> That is, unless they are a pan-European champion.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#68

Post by dillondoyle »

snskzbs wrote: post #60
dillondoyle wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't even get DC statehood which is very popular, DC residents want it hugely. Republicans block it. I would go for PR too, maybe a tradeoff since it's not reliably blue like you might imagine - or at least the 'blue' most people think of Dem.

First, DC statehood is not popular. Not outside of DC itself and the delusions of the Democrats who realized, upon loosing Miami, that demographics isnt destiny. Most Americans see that the right way to correct the grievance of lack of representation is by returning DC where it came from - Maryland. The political junkies are loath to dillute the insane additional political power they'd wield if they became a state. R…

Returning to MD would for sure solve a lot of the arguments about representation, tax issues, etc.

I agree on PR it's not as liberal at least socially as many would assume. But DC is 100% a very very liberal city.

Polling has moved our direction, right now a plurality outside the margin nationwide support DC statehood at least in the last polls I've seen asking it.

And personally as you can guess my obvious political worldview I also don't think DC statehood alone is even enough power to seriously tip the scales against all the Republican tactics and advantages with the many other small states with aging populations/young wealthy people moving out. DC would just tip the scale slightly more towards equal IMHO

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#69

Post by bigpumpkin »

SCAQTony wrote: post #48

The USA is also willing to defend Taiwan and currently the US has carrier groups in the south China sea. This suggests that the idea of building chips in the US may be a diplomatic courtesy and arguably an incentive.

Currently, no carrier group is in the South China Sea [1]

[1] https://news.usni.org/category/fleet-tracker

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#70

Post by KirillPanov »

bpodgursky wrote: post #34
mediaman wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly this came as a loss to Washington, where there is already a significant fab owned by TSMC called WaferTech. Their facility is on the WA side of the Portland suburbs. Many felt WA was in the running because of the talent already there. This caused concerns that the future of the WaferTech fab facility is dimmer than before, since it probably makes less sense to pump billions more into it in the future.

I live in WA and I don't blame them. The state government is not on a pro-business bent right now; most of the discussion is about how to make corporations pay their "fair share". (also, the gross receipts tax is... pretty dumb) If there's a more business-friendly state, absolutely would take it in a heartbeat.

The kneejerk downvotes of this post make me ashamed of HN.

> (also, the gross receipts tax is... pretty dumb)

... for manufacturers who aren't Boeing. It's true though. Taxing revenue instead of profit is a ridiculous policy which punishes manufacturers and favors every other industry at their expense. Giving one company (Boeing) its own special preferential revenue tax rate [1] of $\epsilon$ percent is not a solution.

[1] https://j7dfh9pbumnyhazfmcsfgm9m.apnews.com/article/37d21240... [*]

[*] (apparently AP news is trying real hard to make their links look like malware or something)

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