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TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

reuters.com

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Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#11

Post by culturestate »

bpodgursky wrote: post #9
blululu wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chandler Arizona is the site of Intel's 14nm Fab[1]. There is a large pool of local talent that they can tap into. Add to this the fact that Arizona has relatively favorable laws for corporate investments and a relatively low cost of living and it's a natural choice. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_si...

It's also geologically fairly stable.

Is this really a primary concern? Most of their main fabs are in Taiwan, which is very seismically active.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#12

Post by jeppesen-io »

culturestate wrote: post #11
bpodgursky wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also geologically fairly stable.

Is this really a primary concern? Most of their main fabs are in Taiwan, which is very seismically active.

That's precisely why. It costs A LOT to make a fab seismic resistant

They've done this and know the costs

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#13

Post by mediaman »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #2

I have no knowledge of the situation, why did they choose Arizona?

Interestingly this came as a loss to Washington, where there is already a significant fab owned by TSMC called WaferTech. Their facility is on the WA side of the Portland suburbs.

Many felt WA was in the running because of the talent already there.

This caused concerns that the future of the WaferTech fab facility is dimmer than before, since it probably makes less sense to pump billions more into it in the future.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#14

Post by neonological »

You guys ever wonder why they don't choose California? These factories have huge environmental impacts that California is not okay with. These factories produce massive amounts of waste that cannot be recycled. This is also very likely to be the same exact reason as to why these talks didn't go so well in Europe.

Arizona like Texas is more business friendly at the expense of not looking out for the well being of people who live in these locations. Ironically, right now by being more business friendly more people want to move to places like Arizona or Texas for jobs.

It's a strange balancing act that has a lot of potential for being over corrected for. Industry brings business and economic growth but ruins the environment and has harms the people living in the area. The insidious thing is environmental costs are paid for much much later.

The consequences of being way to business friendly in these places may only be apparent a decade from now just like how the price of being too business unfriendly is now very apparent in California.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#15

Post by cromka »

I don't think EU cuts deals with specific companies. What would TMSC expect here? That EU gave them money straight up? I don't know how this would work, but maybe I am missing something.

If anything, EU would create a generic fund to subsidize any such investment coming from any company interested, but at EU level, it would definitely take time.

Or they can talk to individual countries about subsidies, just like they do with the US. Plenty of them can afford it.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#16

Post by teruakohatu »

cromka wrote: post #15

I don't think EU cuts deals with specific companies. What would TMSC expect here? That EU gave them money straight up? I don't know how this would work, but maybe I am missing something. If anything, EU would create a generic fund to subsidize any such investment coming from any company interested, but at EU level, it would definitely take time. Or they can talk to individual countries about subsidies, just like they…

The USA (or states do), China does, even my little country of New Zealand does (our tax dollars fund Hollywood blockbusters). If the EU doesn't they are only going to miss out.

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#18

Post by epistasis »

neonological wrote: post #14

You guys ever wonder why they don't choose California? These factories have huge environmental impacts that California is not okay with. These factories produce massive amounts of waste that cannot be recycled. This is also very likely to be the same exact reason as to why these talks didn't go so well in Europe. Arizona like Texas is more business friendly at the expense of not looking out for the well being of peop…

I don't really like the euphemism of "business friendly" when it means "companies don't have to pay for their externalities."

California is extremely entrepreneur-friendly, and have absolutely massive amounts of business compare to Arizona or Texas.

The externalities are not minor either, there are 23 superfund sites in Santa Clara county from Silicon Valley's early years, where they did not bother to properly dispose of waste:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/09/silic...

Re: TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

#20

Post by smnrchrds »

teruakohatu wrote: post #16
cromka wrote: post #15

I don't think EU cuts deals with specific companies. What would TMSC expect here? That EU gave them money straight up? I don't know how this would work, but maybe I am missing something. If anything, EU would create a generic fund to subsidize any such investment coming from any company interested, but at EU level, it would definitely take time. Or they can talk to individual countries about subsidies, just like they…

The USA (or states do), China does, even my little country of New Zealand does (our tax dollars fund Hollywood blockbusters). If the EU doesn't they are only going to miss out.

New Zealand may have gone a bit too far in appeasing to corporations, if Kim Dotcom's saga is any indication.
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