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$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#721

Post by stjohnswarts »

nprz wrote: post #255
worik wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not possible to clean up bitcoin. Even if it moved entirely to renewable energy it would still be a massive opportunity cost. There are productive uses that energy could be put to. Bitcoin is not productive. Using gigawatts to process a few transactions a second, when existing financial frameworks can process millions of transactions a seconds at a fraction of the energy input means that bitcoin is always a mas…

There is utility in the bitcoin network that is not found in existing financial systems (censorship-resistant, seizure-resistant, borderless, and pseudonymous). And If you are thinking about the energy consumption of btc on a per transaction basis you are misunderstanding that the btc network should be thought of as a settlement layer, rather than a payment layer. > Bitcoin is therefore best understood as a high-inte…

>> Considering all the plastic junk manufactured in China, shipped on giant container ships all

ah there it is, the straw man. The "plastic junk" makes a lot of poor people's lives a bit better, but fuck those people right?

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#722

Post by api »

roca wrote: post #481
api wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I really dislike some of his behavior, this goal post moving to try to deny Musk credit for what he's accomplished annoys me. Before Musk we had no economical reusable launch systems, economical space flight was sci-fi, and in the 2000s there were many people who thought modern civilization must inevitably grind to a halt as we deplete oil because oil is absolutely irreplaceable for modern transport. SpaceX bui…

SpaceX is excellent. EVs would have happened without Tesla. The "kick in the ass" is the same thing that has driven all other emissions improvements: government regulation.

Without Tesla those government mandates would have led to undesirable “compliance cars.” Tesla made EVs sexy and is why we now have an E-Mustang.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#723

Post by roca »

api wrote: post #722
roca wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX is excellent. EVs would have happened without Tesla. The "kick in the ass" is the same thing that has driven all other emissions improvements: government regulation.

Without Tesla those government mandates would have led to undesirable “compliance cars.” Tesla made EVs sexy and is why we now have an E-Mustang.

There is no reason to believe the former. Car companies have to comply while also selling cars.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#724

Post by dang »

Siira wrote: post #260
delaaxe wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He changed his mind because of this: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/05/private-equity-f...

You're either clueless, or an astroturf, or a troll.

Please don't break the site guidelines like this, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It only makes the community worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#725

Post by inter_netuser »

Entwickler wrote: post #678
inter_netuser wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all experiments with onchain voting seem to have that problem, just like with voting in real life. read up on the DAO exploit and carbon vote. Even in a drastic situation turnout was low. It's a permissionless industry and I suppose people can try different things, but one thing that sets apart Bitcoin from everything else - it is not a democracry. Democracy was designed for cities of 50-60k in size, where only rich…

"the insiders have over 50% anyway?" This is false. Hard to take the rest of your premise seriously when they are not based on facts and sound more like maximalism.

That's a hypothetical conjecture.

In any distribution, the small number of players usually controls most of the wealth, as we've seen throughout the history.

What are the odds it will not be a handful people, coordinating their interest vs everyone else? That's inevitable.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#726

Post by api »

roca wrote: post #723
api wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without Tesla those government mandates would have led to undesirable “compliance cars.” Tesla made EVs sexy and is why we now have an E-Mustang.

There is no reason to believe the former. Car companies have to comply while also selling cars.

They would have dragged their feet as much as possible to keep ICE alive. Too much car culture inertia and sunk cost. Being shown up is more powerful and motivating than regulations.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#727

Post by ptr2voidStar »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #684
koonsolo wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've done what Elon Musk has done, you're definitely not dumb. That's what I hate about people telling Trump is dumb. If you've done what he has done, he's definitely not dumb. Funny thing is that although I never liked Paris Hilton, I was pretty sure she was not that dumb (turned out she wasn't). The same story when I look at my Facebook feed. Plenty of smart people have all kinds of different views on Covid an…

If it's true to say that there are different types of intelligence, then it's true to say that there are different types of dumb

Interesting comment. Never quite thought about it that way.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#728

Post by inter_netuser »

user-the-name wrote: post #679
rawtxapp wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to bet that Bitcoin mining will be 100% renewable (compared to 40-70% depending on whose numbers you look at today) before ICE vehicles are all gone. I'm basing this on the fact that miners are incentivized to always seek the cheapest source of energy and that renewable/stranded energy is only going to become cheaper over time. At one point, hydro/wind/nuclear will become much more cheaper than coal/fossi…

If bitcoin mining is 100% renewable, that is 100% of renewable energy being destroyed instead of being put to use displacing other, more polluting energy. It doesn't matter if bitcoin mining specifically uses renewable energy. What matters is used in total by everyone. And bitcoin mining will always make things worse, no matter what kind of energy it uses.

if renewables can't power a computer network - sounds like it'll never power the world.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#729

Post by inter_netuser »

user-the-name wrote: post #680
inter_netuser wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do dishwashers and hot tubs, hypocrite.

The provide actual value and usefulness. Bitcoin does three transactions per second while using the energy of an entire country. The bitcoin network could be run on a single PC from 2004, but it uses, again, an entire country's worth of energy. There is nothing in the entire history of humanity that has been as obscenely inefficient and wasteful as bitcoin. Banning it is a no-brainer. The lowest hanging of low-hangin…

Ask Argentines, Zimbabweans, Cypriots, Greeks, Venezuelans, Turks, Lebanese and a few other billions around the world who are not privileged enough to have a stable monetary environment why they choose Bitcoin.

It has little to do with tps.

They do not have any real property rights, unable to access world's financial market, unable to save, unable to better their lives by accumulating wealth, and whatever little wealth they are able to accumulate is confiscated on the regular by the oppressive regimes.

Of course, your dishwasher is much more important than their human rights.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#730

Post by inter_netuser »

ses1984 wrote: post #705
nlitened wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I just wanted to emphasize that in PoW coins, a rogue miner cannot force the whole network to accept blocks because all network participants (even passive non-miners) will just ignore the "invalid" block.

No, but if all the miners fork from all the non mining nodes, the chain with all the miners will be more secure. If a minority of miners side with the non mining nodes, that chain will be more vulnerable to disruption.

Would you hire a security company again, if they refused to protect you when the push comes to shove?

That's all miners are. Mercenaries hired for 10 minutes at a time.

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