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Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

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Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#111

Post by david-gpu »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #104
pmcollins wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not give the suspect a choice? would you prefer your mugshot be published online, google-able for years, or would you rather not, and risk getting ‘disappeared’ by your local police dept without a trace. i know which one i’d choose.

That would provide no protection against being disappeared, and potentially make things more dangerous for people in that situation. Assume police do disappear people. Opting for your record to be public would show police that you're willing to cause problems for them, making the prospect of getting rid of you more appealing. Further, if some associate of yours goes to find out what has happened to you, they can just…

> Assume police do disappear people.

Then it is also easy to imagine that the same police would not take mugshots of the people they want to disappear.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#112

Post by [deleted] »

pmcollins wrote: post #94
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> resists posting mug shots at all, which seems like something that police departments have complete control over Note that these laws originated from a civil rights perspective. Requiring the publication of arrests makes it harder for the police to disappear people.

why not give the suspect a choice? would you prefer your mugshot be published online, google-able for years, or would you rather not, and risk getting ‘disappeared’ by your local police dept without a trace. i know which one i’d choose.

[deleted]

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#113

Post by R0b0t1 »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #104
pmcollins wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not give the suspect a choice? would you prefer your mugshot be published online, google-able for years, or would you rather not, and risk getting ‘disappeared’ by your local police dept without a trace. i know which one i’d choose.

That would provide no protection against being disappeared, and potentially make things more dangerous for people in that situation. Assume police do disappear people. Opting for your record to be public would show police that you're willing to cause problems for them, making the prospect of getting rid of you more appealing. Further, if some associate of yours goes to find out what has happened to you, they can just…

You can only protect people in general, not one specific person. If the police want to kill you they'll get away with it.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#114

Post by HighPlainsDrftr »

pmcollins wrote: post #94
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> resists posting mug shots at all, which seems like something that police departments have complete control over Note that these laws originated from a civil rights perspective. Requiring the publication of arrests makes it harder for the police to disappear people.

why not give the suspect a choice? would you prefer your mugshot be published online, google-able for years, or would you rather not, and risk getting ‘disappeared’ by your local police dept without a trace. i know which one i’d choose.

I don't think this is as easy as we would like it to be.

If they are posting mugshots online, maybe they should also be required to post all police interaction's with the public online (including bodycam footage, etc).

Or maybe none of it should be posted online, and if you are interested in it, you have to go to the courthouse and get the record.

I think the problem really is deeper than that. I think all government actions should be public within a reasonable time.

Now we have to define reasonable time. Ughh.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#115

Post by gnull »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #105
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> resists posting mug shots at all, which seems like something that police departments have complete control over Note that these laws originated from a civil rights perspective. Requiring the publication of arrests makes it harder for the police to disappear people.

First, I don’t see a reason why just a name would not be good enough as opposed to the mug shot itself. Second, it seems that this same justification could be used to justify a lot of privacy breakdowns. For example: Question: “Why are the suspects naked in the mugshots?” Answer: “This is actually a civil rights thing to show that they were not beaten up during their arrest. Before, police would hit suspects where th…

The suspect may not an ID with them. Waiting until you identify the person is an extra opportunity for them to disappear.

Naked mugshots can be a solution in some places. Some write that in Russia police can beat the confession out of you, keep you for a couple of weeks in jail until the visible wounds heal and then send you to court together with the confession you signed.

Naked mugshots will not help in this specific situation, because the court is corrupt together with cops and they will just ignore the procedures. But if I had a choice, I'd prefer a naked mugshot to torture (and of course, they can torture you without leaving any traces; with electricity, for example).

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#116

Post by aspaceman »

dragonwriter wrote: post #69
aspaceman wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My local police department posts mugshots on their Twitter, sends copies to the local newspaper, and types up a detailed report for the local radio station for _every_ _single_ _interaction_. "John Doe was pulled over by X police Saturday afternoon for a speeding violation. Jane Y was ..." And every Sunday, the local station plays these. So you know every single person who was pulled over. The vehicle they drive. Etc…

> for _every_ _single_ _interaction_. I bet not, and that there is considerable selectivity (both based on legal mandates and police discretion) as to which interactions are reported and which facts about them are reported. Reporting a lot, however, is a good way of creating the impression that everything is being reported.

To be clear, no they don't post a mugshot for a traffic stop.

I mean that for all traffic stops (or at least, quite a damn few) they will report the full name, and the crime which tends to be speeding or a traffic violation.

One degree up you'll get the speeding infraction _and_ they didn't have insurance or a suspended license.

I've listened to this program every week for months now. I wish I was kidding.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#117

Post by aspaceman »

swiley wrote: post #49
aspaceman wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My local police department posts mugshots on their Twitter, sends copies to the local newspaper, and types up a detailed report for the local radio station for _every_ _single_ _interaction_. "John Doe was pulled over by X police Saturday afternoon for a speeding violation. Jane Y was ..." And every Sunday, the local station plays these. So you know every single person who was pulled over. The vehicle they drive. Etc…

It will end up on the feed the court publishes, so it's not like it isn't public information. The police could chill out though and not make a bad situation worse.

I agree that all of this info is public anyways - and back in the day I bet you could go to the library and look it all up.

But having it blasted out on a public radio program every week is too much for me.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#118

Post by HighPlainsDrftr »

CecilBDeMilles wrote: post #106
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A problem with mugshot sites is that they often detail the charges, and sometimes the charges just aren’t something people are going to be tolerant of. For example, I know a young man who traded nude photos on his phone with a girlfriend who was just below the age of consent, got caught, and was arrested and charged with "sexual exploitation of a minor". Once in court, those charges were easily plea-bargained away, b…

I never thought of it this way before. These mugshot landing pages don't exactly have a lot of subtlety to the outcome about the charges.

I've often done a thought experiment across much of what I read in my local newspaper for people getting picked up... etc.

If we didn't have drugs, or if we didn't drive, would the police have much to do? Probably not.

When it comes to drugs, we make drug users much more evil than they are.

When it comes to driving, its a relatively new thing in the history of the human race.

I firmly think the law should be there to protect us from others, and not ourselves.

Don't forget, the police have there agenda too. They want to grow their departments and look great at solving crime.

The individual officers are just enforcing what they are told to enforce, and behave how they should. They just are following the orders that the legislatures are giving us.

TBH... I don't believe people belong in jail unless they are a threat to others. We should take the extreme crimes and put people in prison for those. People that hurt or kill others do either need a break from society, or should have a 'permanent' break from society.

The rest, we just need to try to reform, and keep on making them functional in this society. Its a far less burden.

Just my $0.02.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#119

Post by nradov »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #95
nradov wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a law probably wouldn't be Constitutional. Speech can't be compelled.

Can't it? Apparently the US government can compel you to act as though your website's records haven't been seized – which includes publishing your weekly “our records haven't been seized” notice.

That is not legally correct. There is no such law or precedent. If you disagree then please provide a specific citation.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#120

Post by HighPlainsDrftr »

dfxm12 wrote: post #4

What are the forces at play here? People don't want to be embarrassed by their mugshot vs people don't want to be discriminated against because of a mugshot vs the transparency of who cops are arresting and why. I don't know if laws should care about someone being embarrassed. I'm kind of surprised about this anti-transparency rhetoric coming someone who started a Libertarian think tank (but maybe I shouldn't be). I…

I agree. The US Government was founded on the idea of transparency, the people, are the ultimate power.

Nothing in the government should be secret forever. I realize we have national security. We shouldn't allow them to hide information from us forever. We need newer guidlines on this. Eg - after the government does something, maybe it should be brought out into the open after a certain period of time - a year - months - whatever - but it is something that we should demand.

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