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Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

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Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#31

Post by tomatotomato37 »

dfxm12 wrote: post #4

What are the forces at play here? People don't want to be embarrassed by their mugshot vs people don't want to be discriminated against because of a mugshot vs the transparency of who cops are arresting and why. I don't know if laws should care about someone being embarrassed. I'm kind of surprised about this anti-transparency rhetoric coming someone who started a Libertarian think tank (but maybe I shouldn't be). I…

That is an interesting point. One of the the reasons for the Florida Man meme is due to the state's sunshine laws, which makes nearly all government records and proceedings, those dealing with arrest, public. That leads to a lot of embarrassing stories about rednecks molesting alligators, but it also allowed for the uncovering of a massive Minority Report-tier scheme of police officers continually harassing citizens marked by an algorithm as a "potential future criminal"

https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/p...

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#32

Post by dfxm12 »

jollybean wrote: post #3

I'm wary of the fact that mug shots are made and publicized before any facts, objectivity or legal scrutiny, yet they appear to make the person 'look guilty'. I suggest they shouldn't be public information until sentencing, and then only 'valid' or publishable while a person is incarcerated. I think the idea is supposed to be if you 'server your time' you get a chance to have a normal life again.

If you think a mug shot makes someone look guilty, do you not believe someone is innocent until proven guilty?

Perhaps that the real issue. People don't understand how the justice system works. People put too much blind faith in cops.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#33

Post by deftnerd »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #7
errantspark wrote: post #5

I wonder in the discussions surrounding these sorts of things (Right to be Forgotten, etc) if the issue isn't that there should be a right to be forgotten but rather that culturally we should be far far more tolerant of people fucking up. It feels like the perception of how much the average member of society transgresses its rules is totally out of sync with reality, though this may be by design to create space for e…

A problem with mugshot sites is that they often detail the charges, and sometimes the charges just aren’t something people are going to be tolerant of. For example, I know a young man who traded nude photos on his phone with a girlfriend who was just below the age of consent, got caught, and was arrested and charged with "sexual exploitation of a minor". Once in court, those charges were easily plea-bargained away, b…

One of the other issues that your comment shines a light on is that police often book someone under multiple charges. A safe one that the person is likely to be able to be convicted on, and multiple charges that probably don't apply to the situation.

This is common because it gives prosecutors the power to "offer" to drop the higher charges in exchange for accepting a plea bargain to the lower, and likely more appropriate, charges.

The result of this is that booking information, with the photos, from a drunken bar fight might show the person was charged with assault with a deadly weapon when the final charge will end up being something like disorderly conduct.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#34

Post by dfxm12 »

itake wrote: post #13
dfxm12 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is why/how is it haunting you? See my 2nd point. If our culture treats the accused poorly, that's not the fault of nor is it caused by public mugshots.

How do you correct the problem of our culture treating the accused poorly? If you're arrested under false pretenses (just google search "cops planting drugs" to see countless videos), how do we prevent life-long impact of innocent people?

I suppose one step we can take is to not put so much blind faith in cops. They get arrests wrong. I do think politicians, cops and the media all have a role to play though.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#35

Post by heavyset_go »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #21

Good idea. I'd also like to see a law making it criminal for a site to post such information without also obviously posting that charges are dropped. You have one week to either take it down entirely or clearly mark it as dropped. If neither is done the post will be considered extortion. A very minor burden on news sites that have to update old articles. A big burden on the extortionist websites. And by making it a c…

> I'd also like to see a law making it criminal for a site to post such information without also obviously posting that charges are dropped. You have one week to either take it down entirely or clearly mark it as dropped. If neither is done the post will be considered extortion.

Not only should it be criminal, but people should also be able to file civil suits for damages against businesses that are willing to expend resources to dig up and publish criminal charges and arrest records, but refuse to expend any resources to follow up on their published claims.

It's one thing when tabloids parade around dirt on public figures, it's another thing entirely when the same is done to private individuals.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#36

Post by paulpauper »

dfxm12 wrote: post #32
jollybean wrote: post #3

I'm wary of the fact that mug shots are made and publicized before any facts, objectivity or legal scrutiny, yet they appear to make the person 'look guilty'. I suggest they shouldn't be public information until sentencing, and then only 'valid' or publishable while a person is incarcerated. I think the idea is supposed to be if you 'server your time' you get a chance to have a normal life again.

If you think a mug shot makes someone look guilty, do you not believe someone is innocent until proven guilty? Perhaps that the real issue. People don't understand how the justice system works. People put too much blind faith in cops.

a lot of people plead guilty too

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#37

Post by errantspark »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #10
errantspark wrote: post #5

I wonder in the discussions surrounding these sorts of things (Right to be Forgotten, etc) if the issue isn't that there should be a right to be forgotten but rather that culturally we should be far far more tolerant of people fucking up. It feels like the perception of how much the average member of society transgresses its rules is totally out of sync with reality, though this may be by design to create space for e…

> culturally we should The problem with that is that such a "should" doesn't change the "are", and that it's unlikely to change any time soon. So we need to acknowledge reality and try to find a fix that works within that reality.

Absolutely agree with this, I'm not saying we shouldn't have a right to be forgotten, it seems like an easy kludge to implement right now. I'm just musing.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#38

Post by whatshisface »

errantspark wrote: post #5

I wonder in the discussions surrounding these sorts of things (Right to be Forgotten, etc) if the issue isn't that there should be a right to be forgotten but rather that culturally we should be far far more tolerant of people fucking up. It feels like the perception of how much the average member of society transgresses its rules is totally out of sync with reality, though this may be by design to create space for e…

You can change the law, but there's no plausible path towards making people less judgemental. It's like saying, "speed limits are misguided, what we really need is a culture of safe driving."

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#39

Post by andrewla »

I like that the proposed bills here are not attempts to force sites to remove mug shots (which seems like a losing battle) but instead just resists posting mug shots at all, which seems like something that police departments have complete control over.

Unless it serves a legitimate law enforcement end, either as part of a punishment for being convicted of a crime or to aid the public in the search for a fugitive, it should simply not ever be released to the public in any form. And frankly the former seems inhumane for all but the most serious crimes.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#40

Post by dfxm12 »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #10
errantspark wrote: post #5

I wonder in the discussions surrounding these sorts of things (Right to be Forgotten, etc) if the issue isn't that there should be a right to be forgotten but rather that culturally we should be far far more tolerant of people fucking up. It feels like the perception of how much the average member of society transgresses its rules is totally out of sync with reality, though this may be by design to create space for e…

> culturally we should The problem with that is that such a "should" doesn't change the "are", and that it's unlikely to change any time soon. So we need to acknowledge reality and try to find a fix that works within that reality.

The reality is that one is innocent until proven guilty. I'm not interested in weakening this fundamental right to accommodate people who are uncomfortable admitting the fallibility of the police or our justice system.

That people think if the cops arrest you, you're no longer innocent is the way bigger issue here.

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