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Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

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Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#11

Post by scythe »

dfxm12 wrote: post #4

What are the forces at play here? People don't want to be embarrassed by their mugshot vs people don't want to be discriminated against because of a mugshot vs the transparency of who cops are arresting and why. I don't know if laws should care about someone being embarrassed. I'm kind of surprised about this anti-transparency rhetoric coming someone who started a Libertarian think tank (but maybe I shouldn't be). I…

A mug shot does not provide publicly relevant information. It is very much the opposite: a direct invasion of an individual's privacy. I didn't consent to that picture being next to my name. Frankly, it's crazy that any mug shot is ever available on the Internet, unless it's on some kind of "wanted" list.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#12

Post by Mountain_Skies »

jollybean wrote: post #3

I'm wary of the fact that mug shots are made and publicized before any facts, objectivity or legal scrutiny, yet they appear to make the person 'look guilty'. I suggest they shouldn't be public information until sentencing, and then only 'valid' or publishable while a person is incarcerated. I think the idea is supposed to be if you 'server your time' you get a chance to have a normal life again.

Think the original idea for releasing this information was to prevent the police from secretly disappearing people, which has happened quite a bit around the world. The police know, if they take someone into custody, that it will be part of the public record for all to see.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#13

Post by itake »

dfxm12 wrote: post #9
throwawayboise wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think most importantly, arrests need to be publicly available. We have a right to know who the cops are arresting and why That's a good point, but on the other side there is the (very important) presumption of innocence. If I'm arrested, but not convicted of any crime (or possibly not even charged), why should that be a public record that will haunt me forever?

The question is why/how is it haunting you? See my 2nd point. If our culture treats the accused poorly, that's not the fault of nor is it caused by public mugshots.

How do you correct the problem of our culture treating the accused poorly?

If you're arrested under false pretenses (just google search "cops planting drugs" to see countless videos), how do we prevent life-long impact of innocent people?

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#14

Post by matsemann »

Why are names and pictures published before one even know if the person is guilty? And even if found guilty, why does the media use so much personal information?

In my country it's always anonymous in the media, unless it's a person the media deems as the public having an interest in knowing about (political figure or so).

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#15

Post by TchoBeer »

dfxm12 wrote: post #9
throwawayboise wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think most importantly, arrests need to be publicly available. We have a right to know who the cops are arresting and why That's a good point, but on the other side there is the (very important) presumption of innocence. If I'm arrested, but not convicted of any crime (or possibly not even charged), why should that be a public record that will haunt me forever?

The question is why/how is it haunting you? See my 2nd point. If our culture treats the accused poorly, that's not the fault of nor is it caused by public mugshots.

It _is_ enabled by public mugshots though. You can ban public mugshots, but you can't ban "the culture treating the accused poorly".

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#16

Post by dfxm12 »

admax88q wrote: post #8
dfxm12 wrote: post #4

What are the forces at play here? People don't want to be embarrassed by their mugshot vs people don't want to be discriminated against because of a mugshot vs the transparency of who cops are arresting and why. I don't know if laws should care about someone being embarrassed. I'm kind of surprised about this anti-transparency rhetoric coming someone who started a Libertarian think tank (but maybe I shouldn't be). I…

> Plus, if that's an issue we want to solve, then make laws that actually target discrimination because of arrest record. Do you honestly think such laws would be effective?

I don't have such a defeatist attitude. I think it would contribute overall to lessening the stigma of being accused of a crime. Politicians, cops and the media all have a part to play in this, though.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#17

Post by duskwuff »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #7
errantspark wrote: post #5

I wonder in the discussions surrounding these sorts of things (Right to be Forgotten, etc) if the issue isn't that there should be a right to be forgotten but rather that culturally we should be far far more tolerant of people fucking up. It feels like the perception of how much the average member of society transgresses its rules is totally out of sync with reality, though this may be by design to create space for e…

A problem with mugshot sites is that they often detail the charges, and sometimes the charges just aren’t something people are going to be tolerant of. For example, I know a young man who traded nude photos on his phone with a girlfriend who was just below the age of consent, got caught, and was arrested and charged with "sexual exploitation of a minor". Once in court, those charges were easily plea-bargained away, b…

If anything, that feels like an argument in favor of restricting what can be published about arrests and unproven charges in general -- not just the mugshots.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#19

Post by duskwuff »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #12
jollybean wrote: post #3

I'm wary of the fact that mug shots are made and publicized before any facts, objectivity or legal scrutiny, yet they appear to make the person 'look guilty'. I suggest they shouldn't be public information until sentencing, and then only 'valid' or publishable while a person is incarcerated. I think the idea is supposed to be if you 'server your time' you get a chance to have a normal life again.

Think the original idea for releasing this information was to prevent the police from secretly disappearing people, which has happened quite a bit around the world. The police know, if they take someone into custody, that it will be part of the public record for all to see.

Which is fine when it's just the police making that information available on a short-term, need-to-know basis. When you have third parties (like "mugshot sites") republishing that information in a more lasting and public form, it becomes a problem.

Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that

#20

Post by novok »

dfxm12 wrote: post #4

What are the forces at play here? People don't want to be embarrassed by their mugshot vs people don't want to be discriminated against because of a mugshot vs the transparency of who cops are arresting and why. I don't know if laws should care about someone being embarrassed. I'm kind of surprised about this anti-transparency rhetoric coming someone who started a Libertarian think tank (but maybe I shouldn't be). I…

Mugshots are a form of punishment without being convicted of a crime. The government and police keep plenty of info private before court days, so it can make sense to keep this private too.

I think the main reason why they are public is so the police cant just disappear someone when they were arrested for potentially political reasons, and their political supporters can start responding when it happens, same with why court cases are publicly accessible.

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