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Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

nytimes.com

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Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#751

Post by jdminhbg »

abracadaniel wrote: post #745
josephcsible wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is they didn't say "masks work but please save them for first responders until we get more." They said "masks don't work." You can argue they may have had a good reason to lie, but you can't argue that they didn't lie.

They never said that "masks don't work", you'll find that they instead said "There is no evidence that masks work" as there wasn't yet evidence at the time. It was correct, but a poor way to communicate the situation.

There was no change in the evidence on masks between March and April of 2020. This is retconning the CDC’s incompetent messaging.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#752

Post by varjag »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #750
varjag wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“There’s no evidence that wearing masks on healthy people will protect them,” Perencevich said, the publication reported. “They wear them incorrectly, and they can increase the risk of infection because they’re touching their face more often.” https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article240... "Masks may actually increase your coronavirus risk if worn improperly, surgeon general warns" https://edition.cn…

I think we watched different versions of the Alien(s) franchise. Did they retcon that in the prequels? Don't let that facehugger insert a parasite embryo down your throat! Why not? Well overall it would be more beneficial to society if frontline medical staff were wearing that facehugger while treating patients with confirmed or suspected cases of the virus. Oh okay, that seems sensible.

You're just being intentionally obtuse. This attitude is exactly why it's pointless to list sources to pretend-inquisitive strangers on the Internet.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#753

Post by vcavallo »

cmckn wrote: post #734
vcavallo wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even if people cared a lot, you think they’d get presidential primary candidates that they want? or a vice president that they want? these things are faze choices.

For what it’s worth, I did have a candidate in the primary that I liked a lot. I think all of my friends did too. They didn’t get elected, but I also did nothing outside of casting the ballot to help get them elected. (And, part of caring a lot is paying attention to the other 99% of elected positions)

It's interesting to consider how those primary candidates got there and to what extent it would be possible to change who shows up in that position.

Check out "Hate, Inc." by Matt Taibbi. He details the process by which party bosses essentially determine the primary field (and have done so for decades), and the media complex reinforces these choices using terms like "electable" or "wise choice" or "stubborn" or "off reservation".

Yes, this is only about the single off of the President (the Vice President choice is even less available to the people), but there is something to be said about the most visible and paid-attention-to office being the one that is categorically the least in the hands of the people. ...yet nobody seems to mention it.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#754

Post by a9h74j »

joshribakoff wrote: post #716
bnralt wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If research came out that changed the recommendations, well, that's how science works. But that's not what happened. There was plenty of studies showing that masks could be effective before the pandemic started[1]. Here are a couple of Hacker news discussions from early March 2020 about studies done years earlier showing that mask use is effective[2][3]. And this article from right before the CDC changed it's recom…

Whether masks could be effective was never in debate. If you recall, they were concerned people would use the masks incorrectly and that could do more harm, as well as potential shortages in the supply chain and getting the masks to the most important workers. I don’t recall the CDC ever saying “masks do not work”

Fauchi, presumed spokesman for the CDC, came as close as possible to saying so, and/or was taken as such.

If that early statement can be justified by "fog of war" changing virus-related information at that time, then Fauchi should have allowed himself that complication. By offering "there were not enough masks available then" as a later explanation, he seems to have explained it essentially by saying he lied. In doing so he apparently threw away a substantial amount of his credibility, for many people. At worst a lying move; at best a lightweight move with lives at risk.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#755

Post by ceejayoz »

stolenmerch wrote: post #723
ceejayoz wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One must evaluate the consequences of not following a particular piece of advice. If masks work, and you don’t wear one, you are potentially killing people and worsening the pandemic. If they aren’t needed, and you do wear one anyways, no harm has been done.

> no harm has been done This isn't the evaluation we're having though. If it was purely a personal choice to wear one or not then maybe. As it stands, most people were compelled by law to wear a mask under every circumstance whether it made sense or not. The argument quickly went from "wear a mask to protect yourself" to "everyone MUST wear a mask under every situation". It then split into two silly sides signally to…

> As it stands, most people were compelled by law to wear a mask under every circumstance whether it made sense or not.

The CDC's recommendations changed yesterday. It'll take a couple days for states to adjust accordingly.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#756

Post by madhadron »

podgaj wrote: post #641
evandijk70 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch CDC (RIVM) made the same statements. As a result, people don't really believe in masks here either, but it not a big political issue. I am not sure why the mask became such a symbol for the corona measures in the US, but not here.

Because "Freedom". Seriously. I have explained this many times to my European friends. It is difficult to appreciate how people here will always want to push their own personal freedom of choice out as far as they can no matter how much someone else suffers.

This is unfairly downvoted. Much of the cultural indoctrination of Americans was to create a population that could go out and invade territory and commit genocide, which leads directly to this kind of antisocial behavior.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#757

Post by abracadaniel »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #312

Can anyone offer guidance to one who has recovered from the actual Covid infection why they would receive the vaccine? Edit: This recent caveat included Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27125728

There was a paper here a few weeks ago suggesting that those who had Covid and the vaccine had the highest rates of immunity against the variants. The antibodies you generate to a natural infection will be different from those generated by the vaccine, and a diverse set of antibodies seems to be the best bet against random mutation of the virus.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#758

Post by ZeroGravitas »

varjag wrote: post #752
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we watched different versions of the Alien(s) franchise. Did they retcon that in the prequels? Don't let that facehugger insert a parasite embryo down your throat! Why not? Well overall it would be more beneficial to society if frontline medical staff were wearing that facehugger while treating patients with confirmed or suspected cases of the virus. Oh okay, that seems sensible.

You're just being intentionally obtuse. This attitude is exactly why it's pointless to list sources to pretend-inquisitive strangers on the Internet.

I honestly don't understand which bit of this quote, from your own source you don't understand:

“Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!” he wrote. “They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!”

Is he saying that N95 masks don't work at all? That they only magically work for healthcare professionals?

Or is he very, very, clearly, even within the limited confines of a tweet, explaining that N95 masks are better allocated to frontline medical staff than being randomly worn by low risk people in low risk locations doing low risk tasks? That using those resources more effectively will save more lives and that people in those lowee risk situations can easily get protection by keeping a safe distance and following other sensible precautions that they list.

I can see how someone could intentionally misrepresent what he says, but I don't see an honest way to make that mistake.

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#759

Post by [deleted] »

adt2bt wrote: post #743
silicon2401 wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The importance of following the principles for public health is greater than the importance of the advice being unbiasedly perfect at every moment. You're falsely conflating "principles for public health" with "public health advice". Principles for public health include protecting yourself against airborne diseases, which meant that anybody with some knowledge on the issue and ability to think for themselves should…

> That kind of unthinking obedience to authority is how people commit atrocities by "just following orders" That slippery slope must be lubed up real good for anyone to fall off it. Wearing masks, staying away from people, getting vaccinated, etc are far, far away from committing atrocities, and you know it. The point GP was making is in times of crisis, following advice from public health authorities, even if it cha…

[deleted]

Re: Vaccinated Americans now may go without masks in most places, the CDC said

#760

Post by generj »

throwawayboise wrote: post #285
ineedasername wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it's not really "on you". If you're sick, masks protect other people from you getting them sick too. So if an irresponsible unvaccinated anti-masker goes to the theatre and there's an unvaccinated but responsibly mask-wearing person, the unmasked person can get them sick. The responsible person pays the price.

This goes for the flu as well. We've never demanded that people wear masks to protect others from the flu. Are we going to start doing that?

We probably should at least for people with flu like symptoms. We could save a lot of lives annually if we shifted our culture on mask wearing during flu season.
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