Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that
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Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that
#2Fortunately enough, my own mug shot was taken offline when the local news site when bust. It used to be the only thing that came up when you searched me. This happened right at the beginning of my career so I was terrified of the albatross hanging over me. Well, then the pivot-to-video era came and lots of small newspapers and local sites got swallowed up by WickedLocal and the like. I don't think it hindered my career too much.
For the record, I was found innocent. But that doesn't mean your mug shot gets taken down.
Recently I tried to procure a copy of it for my own records (it's a pretty funny photo as I'm wearing a ridiculous outfit and have a shall we say altered expression) but it's quite a lot of paperwork for an individual to get it, at least in my state.
Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that
#3I'm wary of the fact that mug shots are made and publicized before any facts, objectivity or legal scrutiny, yet they appear to make the person 'look guilty'. I suggest they shouldn't be public information until sentencing, and then only 'valid' or publishable while a person is incarcerated. I think the idea is supposed to be if you 'server your time' you get a chance to have a normal life again.
Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that
#4What are the forces at play here? People don't want to be embarrassed by their mugshot vs people don't want to be discriminated against because of a mugshot vs the transparency of who cops are arresting and why.
I don't know if laws should care about someone being embarrassed. I'm kind of surprised about this anti-transparency rhetoric coming someone who started a Libertarian think tank (but maybe I shouldn't be).
I can sympathize with those who think having their arrest record publicized will lead to discrimination, but I don't think hiding mugshots will have much of an effect on that. Plus, if that's an issue we want to solve, then make laws that actually target discrimination because of arrest record & laws that otherwise protect the rights of those accused of crimes.
I think most importantly, arrests need to be publicly available. We have a right to know who the cops are arresting and why, lest people start disappearing or jailed for mysterious reasons (or for looking a certain way). In general, I think our government isn't nearly transparent enough...
Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that
#5I wonder in the discussions surrounding these sorts of things (Right to be Forgotten, etc) if the issue isn't that there should be a right to be forgotten but rather that culturally we should be far far more tolerant of people fucking up. It feels like the perception of how much the average member of society transgresses its rules is totally out of sync with reality, though this may be by design to create space for exploitation.
Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that
#6What are the forces at play here? People don't want to be embarrassed by their mugshot vs people don't want to be discriminated against because of a mugshot vs the transparency of who cops are arresting and why. I don't know if laws should care about someone being embarrassed. I'm kind of surprised about this anti-transparency rhetoric coming someone who started a Libertarian think tank (but maybe I shouldn't be). I…
> I think most importantly, arrests need to be publicly available. We have a right to know who the cops are arresting and why
That's a good point, but on the other side there is the (very important) presumption of innocence. If I'm arrested, but not convicted of any crime (or possibly not even charged), why should that be a public record that will haunt me forever?
Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that
#7I wonder in the discussions surrounding these sorts of things (Right to be Forgotten, etc) if the issue isn't that there should be a right to be forgotten but rather that culturally we should be far far more tolerant of people fucking up. It feels like the perception of how much the average member of society transgresses its rules is totally out of sync with reality, though this may be by design to create space for e…
A problem with mugshot sites is that they often detail the charges, and sometimes the charges just aren’t something people are going to be tolerant of.
For example, I know a young man who traded nude photos on his phone with a girlfriend who was just below the age of consent, got caught, and was arrested and charged with "sexual exploitation of a minor". Once in court, those charges were easily plea-bargained away, but the mugshot and charges will probably be findable on the web for years and years, and changing the public’s kneejerk reaction of disgust and hatred at those charges (after all, the actual context isn’t there for them to read) isn’t something that I would be optimistic about.
Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that
#8What are the forces at play here? People don't want to be embarrassed by their mugshot vs people don't want to be discriminated against because of a mugshot vs the transparency of who cops are arresting and why. I don't know if laws should care about someone being embarrassed. I'm kind of surprised about this anti-transparency rhetoric coming someone who started a Libertarian think tank (but maybe I shouldn't be). I…
> Plus, if that's an issue we want to solve, then make laws that actually target discrimination because of arrest record.
Do you honestly think such laws would be effective?
Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that
#9What are the forces at play here? People don't want to be embarrassed by their mugshot vs people don't want to be discriminated against because of a mugshot vs the transparency of who cops are arresting and why. I don't know if laws should care about someone being embarrassed. I'm kind of surprised about this anti-transparency rhetoric coming someone who started a Libertarian think tank (but maybe I shouldn't be). I…
> I think most importantly, arrests need to be publicly available. We have a right to know who the cops are arresting and why That's a good point, but on the other side there is the (very important) presumption of innocence. If I'm arrested, but not convicted of any crime (or possibly not even charged), why should that be a public record that will haunt me forever?
The question is why/how is it haunting you? See my 2nd point.
If our culture treats the accused poorly, that's not the fault of nor is it caused by public mugshots.
Re: Online, mug shots are forever – some states want to change that
#10I wonder in the discussions surrounding these sorts of things (Right to be Forgotten, etc) if the issue isn't that there should be a right to be forgotten but rather that culturally we should be far far more tolerant of people fucking up. It feels like the perception of how much the average member of society transgresses its rules is totally out of sync with reality, though this may be by design to create space for e…
> culturally we should
The problem with that is that such a "should" doesn't change the "are", and that it's unlikely to change any time soon. So we need to acknowledge reality and try to find a fix that works within that reality.