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$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#681
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually read his paper? Not the bunch of nonsense later published by people like Hyperloop One and other basically scam companies? What is your bases for dismissing it? Is it videos by one youtuber (who gets reference literally by everybody on this topic)? And even if its not the best possible solution, he basically spent some amount of time on an idea did some validation on it with teams at Tesla and Space…

>What is your bases for dismissing it? My base is Elon Musk. Even Elon Musk himself doesn't believe in his own ideas. He constantly winds them down. Even his Vegas Loop is just Tesla's in tunnels. Yes it wasn't meant to be a Hyperloop but he didn't even get self driving working in a damn tunnel, all you need for this is line following and collision detection for cars and pedestrians. He told us he was going to build…

So basically a bunch of non technical opinion about Elon Musk and your partly nonsensical interpretations of his actions? Color me unconvinced.

Las Vegas is literally a first of a kind minimal application. Self-Driving is still planned.

> If he can't even do the Vegas Loop properly then how is he going to build something more complicated than that?

So when Falcon 1 failed were you like 'They can't even do Falcon 1 probably how can they do Starship'. This is just a terrible argument. The question is not if the first of its kind minimal test is perfect but rather if the overall idea and concept holds up.

I have yet to see any actual sensible analysis of why it doesn't that is not based on a totally flawed understanding of the actual design.

Continuously moving public transport based on mass produced electric drive train threw slim tunnels is sensible and cost effective.

> He said the Hyperloop will have air cushion suspension and then "downgrades" it to ... wheels?

You said it yourself. A loop is not a hyperloop. A hyperloop is a connection between two high density areas over a long distance. A loop is for within one city or maybe region and was literally always designed to be used with cheap mass produced electric drive trains.

> All he did is create a sales pitch. He's not going to build the hyperloop he promised, the same way he is not going to create the Vegas loop in the way he promised.

He created a sales pitch and then didn't sell anything? So what makes it a sales pitch? He quite literally said he was gone release a technical blue paper of something he found interesting and did as a personal hobby and that's all he was gone do. And that exactly what he did.

Do you get mad at any company that releases a blue paper without a product?

You are just making up your own version of the story. He literally never promised a hyperloop. Please find me one bit of evidence that Musk ever actually promised anything to anybody. In fact, literally the opposite is true. He said 'I don't have time for this', he literally anti-promised it but somehow because people prefer to read media reports 5x removed missed this point.

It was many years later when he started the Boring company with a different goal of solving a totally different problem.

> Well, that is sad because those companies were actually building Hyperloops. If they are scam companies, then the concept is essentially a scam and Elon Musk avoids being associated with the scam by never building one.

No they were not, please actually compare their concepts to Musk Hyperloop paper. Technically they are quite different and often do things specifically pointed out in Musk paper as things that he considers not viable. They were just people trying to get investment by associating their ideas with Musk because of his popularity. You hardly blame Musk for being popular and people trying to do that sort of thing.

Its exactly because of people like you who say things like 'Musk promised Hyperloop' or associate literally any company that uses the term 'Hyperloop' and associate them with Musk.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#682

I still don't think the environmental damage is the scariest part of cryptocurrencies since there are likely technological solutions. As even Douglas Adams tried to warn, it's the deflation that is worrisome: https://benoitessiambre.com/specter.html

America was in a deflationary environment for much of the 1800s and GDP grew at faster rate than the 1900s, with smaller crashes (nothing as big as the Great Depression or the GFC). Anti-deflationary propaganda is just FUD funded by an entire industry heavily invested in the current system: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/the-cantillon-effect-why-...

I gave you textbook macro about deflationary currencies and you gave me hand wavy talking points about the 1800s that are easily verified as lies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_Unit.... But that doesn't even matter since that era's global financial system was too different to draw much parallels. In particular, asset prices weren't globally and instantly synchronized so financial crises were more regional. People still widely relied on barter instead of cash back then, ffs! As soon as the markets became global and connected enough in the early 1900s, gold became the memetic deflationary asset of the time and when it got intertwined enough with the financial system, went on to cause the great depression, fuel WWII etc.

You provided an article about the unrelated Cantillon effect instead of deflation? Maybe you mean to meant to paste another link?

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#683
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And denying covid kept workers in his factory, against the law. I think there needs to be some rule in discussion that as soon as you start arguing over if someone is dumb or evil, you have to stop. It's impossible to figure out which (or what mix) it actually is.

I'm fairly certain it was not in violation of "the law", but rather in violation of edicts from unelected officials.

The California Executive Order creating a shutdown was issued by the Governor, who is elected.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#684
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And denying covid kept workers in his factory, against the law. I think there needs to be some rule in discussion that as soon as you start arguing over if someone is dumb or evil, you have to stop. It's impossible to figure out which (or what mix) it actually is.

If you've done what Elon Musk has done, you're definitely not dumb. That's what I hate about people telling Trump is dumb. If you've done what he has done, he's definitely not dumb. Funny thing is that although I never liked Paris Hilton, I was pretty sure she was not that dumb (turned out she wasn't). The same story when I look at my Facebook feed. Plenty of smart people have all kinds of different views on Covid an…

If it's true to say that there are different types of intelligence, then it's true to say that there are different types of dumb

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#685
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The law" gives public health officials authority to issue those "edicts". Try taking them to court and see how far that gets you. Hint: not very.

Some people seem to have done pretty well in court bringing a case against unconstitutional edicts: https://www.npr.org/2021/04/10/986010977/supreme-court-rules...

Restricting religion and regulating a factory are pretty different. The first runs directly afoul of the constitution, while the second is clearly within the purview of regulators and public health officials.

I was thinking of Jacobson v Massachusetts in my original comment, which upheld state and local governments' broad authority in public health.

Here's a balanced view of the powers affirmed in Jacobson and how that has changed over time to better protect individual liberty: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449224/

Note however that applies to individuals, not factories or places of business which are subject to much more regulation.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Traffic accidents decrease, other accidental fatalities decreases, the number of people who catch covid decrease in a lockdown. What's the point of being alive if you can't live life? Fine if you choose that for yourself, but you're a monster if you'd dare to assume you have the right to confine everybody else to such a miserable existence. Marx has a great quote along those lines: "The human body is mortal by natur…

It's a good thing not everyone has such disregard and lack of empathy for their fellow humans. I'm guessing you're Libertarian, not Communist, right?

It's good that not everybody has such flagrant disregard for human rights; I'm guessing you're a Democrat?

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America was in a deflationary environment for much of the 1800s and GDP grew at faster rate than the 1900s, with smaller crashes (nothing as big as the Great Depression or the GFC). Anti-deflationary propaganda is just FUD funded by an entire industry heavily invested in the current system: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/the-cantillon-effect-why-...

I gave you textbook macro about deflationary currencies and you gave me hand wavy talking points about the 1800s that are easily verified as lies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_Unit... . But that doesn't even matter since that era's global financial system was too different to draw much parallels. In particular, asset prices weren't globally and instantly synchronized so financial crises were…

The link you provided doesn't even mention the GDP effect of those recessions, but if you look it up you'll find that none had as severe an effect on GDP as the great depression.

The Cantillon effect is how the financial industry profits from inflation in its current format, which you'd know if you read the link. This incentivises it to produce FUD against deflation.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#689
post #338
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golly. All those things (just like payments) are available much cheaper other ways. I am not a cryptographer, but the cryptographers I know and trust all agree on that.

Say you wanted to pseudonymously send funds to a family member with a frozen bank account in say, Gaza, by the end of the day. What tech would you use to accomplish this?

Please don’t use Gaza as a justification to this broken piece of technology. That’s borderline dishonest.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#690
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two very plausible theories: - Musk is not very smart, or at least doesn't always think decisions through or go through proper due diligence(we have evidence for this: see SEC tweets, thai children rescue, excessive management turnover, etc.) - He (and Tesla management) know he can manipulate the crypto market. So they (first) bought $1.5B in BTC unknowingly to the public, (second) told the market they did (third) so…

>Crypto advocates want democratization of currency. Well here ya go - whales can easily manipulate the system. But on the bright side, guess what? With every open system 'manipulation' attempt, the market gets smarter & more resilient to such.

Does it? Show me an example.
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