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Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

businessinsider.com.au

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Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#401

Post by refurb »

boringg wrote: post #363
refurb wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay them because your argument is “i should be paying more”. It’s hard to take someone seriously when they say they should pay more tax, have every opportunity to pay more tax, yet choose not to pay more tax.

He's arguing that the system should charge him more and his class of citizens more. Why would he arbitrarily pay more if noone else in his cohort is paying more? Doesn't make any sense. What you are saying is he should make a donation to the US government.

No, those are just weasel words. It’s setting an example by doing what you’re saying others should be doing.

It’s why we have the phrase “put your money where you mouth is”.

And it’s not a donation. It’s intentionally paying more taxes because that what you think you should be doing. If the law changed he’d be paying the extra money anyways.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#402

Post by refurb »

edanm wrote: post #360
refurb wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry what? Buffet shouldn’t have just cut the IRS a check for $2B because it’s “meaningless to just send the money”? So unless all the pieces are in place there is no value in paying the amount in taxes you publicly claim you should pay? That’s like saying alcohol should be illegal, but drinking all the time. “Well, there is no point in me not drinking, the point is to change the law”. That makes zero sense.

The argument is usually that you personally making the change isn't significant. Even $2B from Buffet isn't significant on a "US government" level. So making that change would "hurt" Buffet a lot for not much gain. Changing the law, on the other hand, is significant, because it impacts every millionaire/billionaire.

No, this is bullshit. “Hurt” Buffet? Hurt him how? Wouldn’t the higher tax rate “hurt” home too.

This is just a bullshit billionaire who won’t do what he’s asking others to do.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#403

Post by thrwhizzle »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #380
thrwhizzle wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What do you think is a reasonable effective income tax rate? (Please do not confuse effective and nominal tax rates!) In my view: "All in" should be about 50-55%. When I say "all in" I mean absolutely everything -- federal, state, local, national pension, national health (if applicable), yada yada yada. Who is this for? The “rich” or for everyone else? An effective rate of 50-55% is obscene. I would relocate for any…

Where do you live? In California - if you don't have a ton of mortgage interest deductions and you count state income tax - you're above 39.5% on $400k. If you count both sides of payroll tax, you're in the mid 40s. And even if you own a home, if you count property tax, you could be close to or above 50%. The median state income tax is about half of California's at $400k - and property taxes here are somewhat low. Mo…

California is bleeding citizens.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#404

Post by thrwhizzle »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #382
thrwhizzle wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What do you think is a reasonable effective income tax rate? (Please do not confuse effective and nominal tax rates!) In my view: "All in" should be about 50-55%. When I say "all in" I mean absolutely everything -- federal, state, local, national pension, national health (if applicable), yada yada yada. Who is this for? The “rich” or for everyone else? An effective rate of 50-55% is obscene. I would relocate for any…

If unclear, the "reasonable effective income tax rate" was for the top 1%. 1) Where do you live? 2) Are you in the top 1%? 3) In your location, what is the effective income tax rate for top 1%?

Texas.

That would depend on how you classify 1%.

The effective tax rate for an individual earning $400k would be around 31%.

Like I said, even approaching 40% is obscene. 50-55% is absolute thievery. I would relocate from Texas if my effective tax was even close to 40%.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#405

Post by refurb »

Frost1x wrote: post #369
refurb wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capital gains taxes fall under income taxes. Spending money on lobbyists is not corruption. Is the ACLU corrupting Congress through its lobbying?

>Is the ACLU corrupting Congress through its lobbying? Yes. Just because what something has as a goal may seem like a net positive doesn't mean the means it uses to get to that goal are. The ACLU, like any lobbying, is using financial resources to influence democratic government policy disproportionately based on the financial resources it can acquire. The ACLU shouldn't need to exist but it's an interesting example…

Huh? You’re saying that voters or organizations that represent voters shouldn’t petition their politicians in issues they think are important? Because that’s what lobbying is.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#406

Post by Mauricebranagh »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #375
Mauricebranagh wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which special treatment is this ? Might be more sensible to give smallish tax breaks for CGT to ordinary workers and reform the taxation of worker share options no more crippling tax bills for worthless options. Id also encourage listed companies to offer UK style share saves to all workers to allow those lower down the food chain to actually get some equity.

You wrote: > Good question. For the United States, I reference: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/10151... If you hold one year or more: Filing Status: Single 0% rate: Up to $40,000 15% rate: $40,000 to to $441,450 20% rate: Over $441,450 In the above, personally, I would like to remove the brackets for 15% and 20%. My point: For anyone beyond middle class, tax capital gains as regular income.

Not sure what your point is those with more gains pay more here - is residential property included in this?

Taxing cgt as income has some negative aspects.

And almost 1/2 mill a year income is not what id call "middle class"

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#407

Post by tptacek »

jb775 wrote: post #193
colechristensen wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One: this seems to be about uber activities outside the US Two: the US is actively working on what it is calling a global minimum corporate tax Three: anonymous shell companies were made illegal in the US in January It seems your comment is rather uninformed. There is of course much to do but it is hard to look at what is happening and come to the conclusion that it is all nothing

> this seems to be about uber activities outside the US Wrong. This is Uber transferring money all around the world through shell companies so it's hard to figure out where it came from. Just like a crypto-mixer. This quote alone shows how they initially transferred a good chunk of money out of the US: Uber transferred its intellectual property through a $16 billion “loan” from one of its subsidiaries in Singapore th…

You're citing a site that quotes the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#408

Post by slver »

rhizome wrote: post #400
slver wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's get couple of things straight: 1. Politicians are responsible for the laws. 2. Companies are responsible for following the laws. If you have a beef with any of the above, address the right parties. How they interact and depend on each other is a fact, but also it's not relevant to the above two points. Everyone has a clear responsibility. Furthermore the phrase "dodged taxes" means "they structured their revenu…

> Who the hell says you gotta structure your revenue in order to MAXIMIZE your taxes? I don't think it's about rules ("gotta"), it's about ethics. I wouldn't say that maximizing taxes is anything, but the desire to minimize taxes is definitely anti-social.

So everyone is antisocial then.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#409

Post by [deleted] »

KirillPanov wrote: post #313
applepple wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just create intangible collateral out of thin air? E.g. crypto? Then you just use some of the credit to pump up the value of the collateral to meet the bank's expectation.

That's called fraud. You would need to find an especially stupid bank. You can certainly do that, but if you're wiling to commit crimes there are much easier ways to make money.

[deleted]

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#410

Post by johannes1234321 »

shard wrote: post #393
johannes1234321 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably legal, even though it's not as intended. If you need 50 shell companies you are clearly abusing some loopholes, which I morally/ethically consider wrong. But that's something society has to fix ...

Finding loopholes seems like it's perfectly aligned with the hacker ethos. We cheer when we read about the guy who figured out how to always win at Press Your Luck, the guy who gamed the lotto system to greatly increase his odds, the guy who bought large quantities of pudding and got enough free air miles to last the rest of his life. I wouldn't be surprised if the first lawyers who figured out these loopholes got th…

Hacker Ethos is mot to find the bug in the bank's system and transfer a billion dollar, but to find the issue and report it and get it fixed. The hacker Ethos is to improve things.
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