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$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#321

Post by worik »

nprz wrote: post #255
worik wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not possible to clean up bitcoin. Even if it moved entirely to renewable energy it would still be a massive opportunity cost. There are productive uses that energy could be put to. Bitcoin is not productive. Using gigawatts to process a few transactions a second, when existing financial frameworks can process millions of transactions a seconds at a fraction of the energy input means that bitcoin is always a mas…

There is utility in the bitcoin network that is not found in existing financial systems (censorship-resistant, seizure-resistant, borderless, and pseudonymous). And If you are thinking about the energy consumption of btc on a per transaction basis you are misunderstanding that the btc network should be thought of as a settlement layer, rather than a payment layer. > Bitcoin is therefore best understood as a high-inte…

Golly. All those things (just like payments) are available much cheaper other ways.

I am not a cryptographer, but the cryptographers I know and trust all agree on that.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#322

Post by smoldesu »

onion2k wrote: post #229
pkulak wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cus he's not that bright. Isn't this the elephant in the room that no one wants to consider? Why do we have to start with the assumption that Musk is a genius, then work back from that? The dude thought covid would go away last May. He thinks it's easier to make Mars habitable than it is to keep the Earth habitable. He's thought that full self driving was 6 months away for literally 4 years now. And he didn't really…

SpaceX wins lots of space contracts with the help of Musk's "Occupy Mars" marketing. Tesla sells lots of cars on the promise of self-driving in the marketing. Musk bought BTC, single-handedly pumped the price of BTC, and then sold at a huge profit. I don't think he's a genius but Musk is definitely not stupid. He's just not playing the obvious game you think he's playing.

Yep, plus one to this. A lot of people are quick to either rationalize his behavior as either awesome or stupid, but I think Musk is really a misunderstood mogul who's intention is to turn a profit, not deliver on his ridiculous worldview.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#323

Post by worik »

nprz wrote: post #255
worik wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not possible to clean up bitcoin. Even if it moved entirely to renewable energy it would still be a massive opportunity cost. There are productive uses that energy could be put to. Bitcoin is not productive. Using gigawatts to process a few transactions a second, when existing financial frameworks can process millions of transactions a seconds at a fraction of the energy input means that bitcoin is always a mas…

There is utility in the bitcoin network that is not found in existing financial systems (censorship-resistant, seizure-resistant, borderless, and pseudonymous). And If you are thinking about the energy consumption of btc on a per transaction basis you are misunderstanding that the btc network should be thought of as a settlement layer, rather than a payment layer. > Bitcoin is therefore best understood as a high-inte…

"myopic focus placed on the bitcoin networks energy consumption"

It is not myopic to look at, and call out, the elephant in the bedroom

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#324

Post by worik »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #288
worik wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not possible to clean up bitcoin. Even if it moved entirely to renewable energy it would still be a massive opportunity cost. There are productive uses that energy could be put to. Bitcoin is not productive. Using gigawatts to process a few transactions a second, when existing financial frameworks can process millions of transactions a seconds at a fraction of the energy input means that bitcoin is always a mas…

You seem unaware of proof-of-stake and other initiatives that should significantly reduce Bitcoin's footprint.

That is not bitcoin

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#325

Post by seunosewa »

novaRom wrote: post #80
phire wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla might not have dumped. But I'd be very interested to see Musk's personal trading accounts, and the trading accounts of his close associates.

This is why SEC department exists: sec.gov Musk should be investigated, this is not the first time his actions lead to massive market perturbations.

I bet he is already being investigated. It is highly unlikely that regulators haven't noticed what he is up to.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#326

Post by ecpottinger »

shiyoon wrote: post #273
pkulak wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cus he's not that bright. Isn't this the elephant in the room that no one wants to consider? Why do we have to start with the assumption that Musk is a genius, then work back from that? The dude thought covid would go away last May. He thinks it's easier to make Mars habitable than it is to keep the Earth habitable. He's thought that full self driving was 6 months away for literally 4 years now. And he didn't really…

It's not that he's dumb, he's just not as transparent or even ethical as people paint him out as.

I think it is the opposite. He is very transparent - it is just people do not want to believe his goals are exactly what he says they are.

I have lost count the number of times in the past about something I have told people the truth, the 100% truth and they tried to skip over what I said because it did not match what they wanted to believe.

Worse, afterwards when events prove they were wrong they then try to make all sorts of excuses to support their original claims.

You can try and pick on Elon's fine details, but look at the stuff people said he could not push thru. If this was before 2010 the idea of the Tesla cars, Solar Tiles, Power-walls, Falcon Rockets, Dragon Capsules, Boring Tunnel and Neuralink all seem like fantasy - yet today they all exist.

Instead I see people send lots of time concentrating on things like Hyperloop not working out so far while trying not to mention the successes.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#327

Post by jokoon »

sakopov wrote: post #31

Very perplexing behavior from Musk, I must say. Bitcoin's energy consumption has been front-and-center for a few years now and even more so when the bull market got hot. How does Musk decide to throw $1.5 billion worth of Tesla's cash into BTC without acknowledging this? I was expecting a little bit more due-diligence from him, but he's been absolutely consumed by crypto markets in general.

Because btc helps money launderers and politically it becomes delicate.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#328

Post by soheil »

worik wrote: post #219
orblivion wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, here's my Big Brain, 4D Chess take: Elon Musk wanted to adopt Bitcoin, but he knew there was this big problem with energy consumption. It's bad for his brand, and perhaps goes against his own ethics. Could he say "hey, get the energy consumption down and I'll go all-in with Tesla"? People wouldn't think much of it. Better option: Buy a huge stake in Bitcoin, announce that he'll be accepting bitcoin at Tesla, ge…

It is not possible to clean up bitcoin. Even if it moved entirely to renewable energy it would still be a massive opportunity cost. There are productive uses that energy could be put to. Bitcoin is not productive. Using gigawatts to process a few transactions a second, when existing financial frameworks can process millions of transactions a seconds at a fraction of the energy input means that bitcoin is always a mas…

The mere technological advance bitcoin has enabled via blockchain alone has led to creation of smart contracts and an explosion of innovation in the space, no doubt all this will inevitably lead to massive productivity gains. Maybe bitcoin itself won't be the final answer but something inspired by it will be.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#330

Post by soheil »

admissionsguy wrote: post #205
sakopov wrote: post #31

Very perplexing behavior from Musk, I must say. Bitcoin's energy consumption has been front-and-center for a few years now and even more so when the bull market got hot. How does Musk decide to throw $1.5 billion worth of Tesla's cash into BTC without acknowledging this? I was expecting a little bit more due-diligence from him, but he's been absolutely consumed by crypto markets in general.

I think Musk is not taking cryptocurrencies or life in general as seriously as most commenters here. Which is quite alright and refreshing, to be honest.

No I think he is, he just doesn't like to show his hand.
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