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Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

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Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#81

Post by sneak »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #30

The thing I still can't fathom, all these years after Bush II and then Snowden, is just how little human beings really care about mass surveillance. Yeah, the Snowden leaks made a splash, but the media cycle turned over a couple weeks later and everyone moved onto other things. It's like, if you're of a certain age, you had to read 1984 or whatever in school. You'd think "well, no one would stand for that sort of thi…

I think most people don't care much about privacy for themselves ("I have nothing to hide") and are happy to let military intelligence daddy read their emails, as long as it doesn't affect their life.

They remain ignorant of the fact that this means that people who actually do need privacy for purposes of organization against the harmful elements of the status quo (civil rights leaders, labor leaders, political party upstarts, et c) will be kneecapped by this for the remainder of the time the USA exists.

It's a lack of imagination, really. The Long Now.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#82

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

mywittyname wrote: post #72
billytetrud wrote: post #2

Unsurprising, but still disappointing. Actually I'm glad someone is trying to hold them accountable. It seems silly tho that we need to pass a law to uphold what's already written into the constitution. It highlights that the constitution only has teeth in some legal contexts, primarily where a court case is being heard on a citizen being prosecuted. Conditionality seems to not have any bearing on preventing agencies…

> It seems silly tho that we need to pass a law to uphold what's already written into the constitution. The constitution only grants or limits power of various branches of government, it doesn't prescribe punishments for breaking the rules. That's a job of Congress (or courts, for civil cases).

Even if the Constitution did prescribe punishments (what's a law without enforcement? wishful thinking.), everyone seems to think that just because there's some lines in the constitution that the matter is settled. We've been debating the constitution since it was written. We need laws to be tested in order to find out if they can or should be changed, or if we need to do something else.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#83

Post by TheTester »

tpmx wrote: post #76
fanatic2pope wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange deliberately leaking false information is a very interesting admission.

Given the extreme asshattery history of Assange, it seems just as probable that he was mostly trying to get some attention with guesses and then later claimed that it was a deliberate disinformation campaign.

Unless you are quite rich and powerful, saying that what Assange has done is mostly "asshattery" is dishonest, yes he has had flukes but consider the mental state of someone being prosecuted and hunted by the most powerful and corrupt people in our planet, mostly what Assange has done s good and denying and calling him an asshat is dishonest and shows a clear bias on your part

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#84

Post by Judgmentality »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #56
vlan0 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. We saw it with Andrew Yang as well. Either being left out completely, or media outlets taking about 'him' without actually saying his name.

I'm skeptical of this media blackout. I heard lots of people talking about this, he was on podcasts, I saw him interviewed. Look at how much discussion there is about him running in NYC. I think it was much more that there were a whole lot of credible people running and there wasn't enough air in the room for him to get much. I saw every losing group complain of the election being stolen from them in some way, Warren…

> I saw every losing group complain of the election being stolen from them in some way, Warren, Sanders, Yang.

The irony of this statement is you see it as evidence of there being no conspiracy, but I see it as exactly the opposite. Maybe everyone complaining about the same problem means the problem is real?

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#85

Post by totalZero »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #7
java-man wrote: post #3

"not wittingly" [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEh-l_G1Gcs

Can't watch because I am at work but the NSA conducts foreign surveillance. If a foreign target talks to a US citizen that's "unwittingly" surveiling a US citizen. Do you believe that it's alright for the NSA to conduct surveillance on foreign threats?

A conversation that includes a single US person should be privileged more than a conversation between non-US persons.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#86

Post by markus_zhang »

babesh wrote: post #27
billytetrud wrote: post #2

Unsurprising, but still disappointing. Actually I'm glad someone is trying to hold them accountable. It seems silly tho that we need to pass a law to uphold what's already written into the constitution. It highlights that the constitution only has teeth in some legal contexts, primarily where a court case is being heard on a citizen being prosecuted. Conditionality seems to not have any bearing on preventing agencies…

Surveillance is a form of power. Power does not give up power. Law is enforced via power. When it meets a greater power then the law is contravened. Look at the US and how it broke international law to force a plane down that it thought had Snowden.

The real problem is that ordinary people do not have power and (secretly) they do not want power.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#87

Post by tsimionescu »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #79
tsimionescu wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people would oppose it if the media were really presenting it as an issue to keep in mind. However, most of the people in the media are very much supporters of such powers, as they are deep believers in the rightness of US institutions and their 'fundamentally benign' nature. If you look at the media, most are still in support of every single war America has ever been in, with the only opposition being o…

I think this is on point, and way underappreciated by the non-hard-right in the US. People who vote Democrat tend to think of "their" media institutions as objective or sincere, and they're quick to forgive the litany of examples of heinous shit the NYT or WP or CNN has pulled over the years - salivating and fully turgid support for endless wars being just the most obvious example.

This video of CNN host Brian Williams referring to 'The Beauty of our Weapons' has stuck with me as one of the most bizarre examples of the prevailing pro-war attitude in the 'left press':

https://twitter.com/i/status/850204332758716420

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#88

Post by vxNsr »

verall wrote: post #18
nickysielicki wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, the most tech-literate politician is without a doubt Thomas Massie, who went to MIT for both his undergrad in electrical engineering and his masters in mechanical engineering, who formed a decently successful startup working on novel computer input mechanisms. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Massie#Early_life,_educ...

And yet he is publicly against Net Neutrality and doesn't believe in climate change. Tribal affiliation takes priority over technical ability I guess.

And yet:

Massie operates a cattle farm in Garrison, Kentucky, with his wife, Rhonda, and their four children.[153][154] They live in a solar-powered home that Massie built himself.[155][156] He is a Methodist.[157]

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#89

Post by atatatat »

Judgmentality wrote: post #84
NotSammyHagar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical of this media blackout. I heard lots of people talking about this, he was on podcasts, I saw him interviewed. Look at how much discussion there is about him running in NYC. I think it was much more that there were a whole lot of credible people running and there wasn't enough air in the room for him to get much. I saw every losing group complain of the election being stolen from them in some way, Warren…

> I saw every losing group complain of the election being stolen from them in some way, Warren, Sanders, Yang. The irony of this statement is you see it as evidence of there being no conspiracy, but I see it as exactly the opposite. Maybe everyone complaining about the same problem means the problem is real?

Bingo.

Easiest mainstream evidence is treatment of candidates in debates — which, reminder, are operated entirely by...basically whoever in academia or media.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#90

Post by grayfaced »

SquibblesRedux wrote: post #53

Regarding the DoD purchasing data from data brokers, I would much rather first focus on laws or regulations that set legal standards for the collection, sale, and other distribution of personal information. For example, make the sale of personal information to a government agency an act that requires posting notice on a public register. Also, a hefty tax on the sale of personal information would be nice to see. I wou…

If these data brokers are already selling this data, I'm not going to get upset at the govt for buying it.

I want restrictions on EVERYONE buying my data. Not just one entity.

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