$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin • Hacker News Board

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#151

Post by dang » Thu, May 13, 2021, 8:14 PM UTC

Some of the major threads in this saga so far:

Tesla Makes More Money Trading Bitcoin Than Selling Cars - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27142261 - May 2021 (171 comments)

Elon Musk: Bitcoin's energy usage trend over the past few months is insane - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27141493 - May 2021 (41 comments)

Tesla no longer accepts Bitcoin due to climate impact - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27139348 - May 2021 (256 comments)

Tesla has suspended vehicle purchases using Bitcoin - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27135776 - May 2021 (344 comments)

Money Stuff: Tesla Sold Some Bitcoins - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26971773 - April 2021 (61 comments)

Tesla Wants Your Bitcoin Without the Downside - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26612901 - March 2021 (48 comments)

Tesla cars can be bought in Bitcoin - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26566056 - March 2021 (89 comments)

You can now buy a Tesla with Bitcoin - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26564340 - March 2021 (10 comments)

Tesla has made $1B profit on its Bitcoin investment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26236072 - Feb 2021 (46 comments)

Buying a Tesla car in Bitcoins cancels 4 times the CO2 savings for its lifetime - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26164512 - Feb 2021 (113 comments)

Elon Musk wants clean power. But Tesla's carrying Bitcoin's dirty baggage - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26090330 - Feb 2021 (256 comments)

Bitcoin powers towards $50K as Tesla takes it mainstream - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26077118 - Feb 2021 (112 comments)

Tesla spent $1.5B in clean car credits on Bitcoin - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26070744 - Feb 2021 (156 comments)

Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26063920 - Feb 2021 (1298 comments)

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#152

Post by varispeed » Thu, May 13, 2021, 8:14 PM UTC

sakopov wrote: post #31

Very perplexing behavior from Musk, I must say. Bitcoin's energy consumption has been front-and-center for a few years now and even more so when the bull market got hot. How does Musk decide to throw $1.5 billion worth of Tesla's cash into BTC without acknowledging this? I was expecting a little bit more due-diligence from him, but he's been absolutely consumed by crypto markets in general.

He is going to blame this on Aspergers. I think this behaviour should be illegal if it is not already.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#153

Post by didibus » Thu, May 13, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #45

didibus wrote: post #15

The word "wiped off" seems misleading, it's not like coins were lost or destroyed, the market value just changed based on demand/offer. Edit: Hum, not sure why the downvotes, is my understanding wrong?

I didn't downvote you, but your comment is the kind that gets downvoted. You're pointing out something that's true and besides the point. MSFT stock can decrease in value without any shares getting destroyed. The market value is in fact what people mean by "$X wiped off".

Ok, I might not have been familiar with the use of the term. I thought in the context of crypto, where coins can actually be "wiped off", in that they can be destroyed and removed from the available pool, it was a little confusing to me. But if this is a common usage to mean a sudden drop in price then I take it back.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#154

Post by acchow » Thu, May 13, 2021, 8:17 PM UTC

hd4 wrote: post #6

The media tends to be extremely trigger-happy to blame a correction or dip in crypto on a single event like Tesla not accepting BTC while it's just as likely that this is an effect of the wider market correction that's taking place after the inflation/CPI news this week.

Tesla's announcement was about the environmental impact of bitcoin. Proof of work coins are down precipitously whereas the main proof of stake coin (Cardano) is up significantly. The timing with the announcement is more than just "macroeconomic effects".

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#155

Post by cpwright » Thu, May 13, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

freshair wrote: post #50

sakopov wrote: post #31

Very perplexing behavior from Musk, I must say. Bitcoin's energy consumption has been front-and-center for a few years now and even more so when the bull market got hot. How does Musk decide to throw $1.5 billion worth of Tesla's cash into BTC without acknowledging this? I was expecting a little bit more due-diligence from him, but he's been absolutely consumed by crypto markets in general.

I don't think it has anything to do with energy or the environment. I think Elon Musk distancing himself from Bitcoin is a consequence of the recent spat of highly publicized ransomware attacks using bitcoin. Elon Musk is connected to the military-industrial complex; it is plausible the federal government has given him forewarning of an impending war on crypto currencies, to make sure their asset, the guy who launche…

I think the Colonial attack has made many people think about cryptocurrencies and the potential for more regulation given the publicity and impact to society. There is no need for him to get any special "tip" to make that determination, or at least have it part of the mosaic of information he uses to evaluate cryptocurrencies.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#156

Post by orblivion » Thu, May 13, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

sakopov wrote: post #31

Very perplexing behavior from Musk, I must say. Bitcoin's energy consumption has been front-and-center for a few years now and even more so when the bull market got hot. How does Musk decide to throw $1.5 billion worth of Tesla's cash into BTC without acknowledging this? I was expecting a little bit more due-diligence from him, but he's been absolutely consumed by crypto markets in general.

Okay, here's my Big Brain, 4D Chess take:

Elon Musk wanted to adopt Bitcoin, but he knew there was this big problem with energy consumption. It's bad for his brand, and perhaps goes against his own ethics. Could he say "hey, get the energy consumption down and I'll go all-in with Tesla"? People wouldn't think much of it.

Better option: Buy a huge stake in Bitcoin, announce that he'll be accepting bitcoin at Tesla, get people really excited, heat up the market, and then pull it out from under them. Now all of the big stakeholders in Bitcoin have a clear, almost measurable incentive to clean up bitcoin's act. If Bitcoin adopts proof-of-stake or whatever needs to happen to bring down energy consumption, people will look back and thank Elon Musk for it.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#157

Post by chanc3e » Thu, May 13, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

whitepaint wrote: post #83

gradys wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is ridiculous exactly? That it's deflationary? Or the intuition that it should rise in the face of USD inflation (all else equal)?

That it should rise because of USD inflation.

Well put. The fundamentals are: pretty much everything in this world has a known fiat currency value.

The difference with BitCoin is that you can't go to a farmer and buy his goods, or pick up a used car, go to an auction, or take a wedge of greenbacks and disappear.

Until that becomes a ready reality, BitCoin is separate from actual trade, and completely vulnerable to speculation.

Currencies are a shared dream, stop believing and they Tinkerbell. That said, a BitCoin does have a definitive value, and won't go away. But it's certainly not $50k.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#158

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 13, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

notyourwork wrote: post #41

sakopov wrote: post #31

Very perplexing behavior from Musk, I must say. Bitcoin's energy consumption has been front-and-center for a few years now and even more so when the bull market got hot. How does Musk decide to throw $1.5 billion worth of Tesla's cash into BTC without acknowledging this? I was expecting a little bit more due-diligence from him, but he's been absolutely consumed by crypto markets in general.

This looks like a pump and dump scheme in its finest form. Nothing changed over last year in regards to energy consumption. There's no way that Elon or those in Tesla discussing this were not aware of this prior.

[deleted]

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#159

Post by acchow » Thu, May 13, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #131

SilasX wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, others have, but interestingly, Cardano (ADA) held up well. Even though it dipped, it's still up 20% over the past week and is #4 by market cap.

Just keep in mind that those who move to the coins that pump during a dump tend to put stop losses. So these coins end up dumping harder later on.

I think people are switching to Cardano because it has lower environmental impact (proof of stake) than others. The Tesla announcement was about the environmental cost of Bitcoin after all.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#160

Post by latchkey » Thu, May 13, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

orblivion wrote: post #156

sakopov wrote: post #31

Very perplexing behavior from Musk, I must say. Bitcoin's energy consumption has been front-and-center for a few years now and even more so when the bull market got hot. How does Musk decide to throw $1.5 billion worth of Tesla's cash into BTC without acknowledging this? I was expecting a little bit more due-diligence from him, but he's been absolutely consumed by crypto markets in general.

Okay, here's my Big Brain, 4D Chess take: Elon Musk wanted to adopt Bitcoin, but he knew there was this big problem with energy consumption. It's bad for his brand, and perhaps goes against his own ethics. Could he say "hey, get the energy consumption down and I'll go all-in with Tesla"? People wouldn't think much of it. Better option: Buy a huge stake in Bitcoin, announce that he'll be accepting bitcoin at Tesla, ge…

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-05-13/elon-m...

  Surely by next week he’ll be tweeting, like, “we are building a giant battery in the desert to mine Bitcoin, Bitcoin is good again, you can use it to pay for Teslas,” and the price will shoot back up, and I’ll once again hit the button that auto-generates this column.