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Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

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Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#61
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveillance is a form of power. Power does not give up power. Law is enforced via power. When it meets a greater power then the law is contravened. Look at the US and how it broke international law to force a plane down that it thought had Snowden.

Would you prefer no laws? Seems we benefit from them no?

Parent post isn’t arguing against the existence of laws. They’re illustrating that laws have limits and can be overcome by entities that wield enough power.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#62
post #48
post #45

That's why all this data collection in the web is a bad idea. Not only by FAANG but any developer who helps in creating this data.

I think U.S. based developers need to create something akin to the CCC in Germany to combat the clear abuse of privacy that many developers are now engaging in on a daily basis. https://www.ccc.de/en/club I know... the CCC has been the target of infiltration and compromise in various ways throughout history, but that's a reality of standing up to abusive power.

I would have thought something like that already existed in the USA. So there is one point where Germany has a head start in IT.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#63
post #4

I knew before even reading that the senator would be Ron Wyden. He's a treasure and the most tech-literate politician I know of. Oregon is lucky to have him, and we could use a lot more like him.

Respectfully, the most tech-literate politician is without a doubt Thomas Massie, who went to MIT for both his undergrad in electrical engineering and his masters in mechanical engineering, who formed a decently successful startup working on novel computer input mechanisms. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Massie#Early_life,_educ...

Actions speak louder than CVs. That reads like an argument from authority.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#64
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, the most tech-literate politician is without a doubt Thomas Massie, who went to MIT for both his undergrad in electrical engineering and his masters in mechanical engineering, who formed a decently successful startup working on novel computer input mechanisms. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Massie#Early_life,_educ...

reminds me of the politicians in my native country. very well educated either lawyers, engineers or doctors. but idiots and corrupt. I would rather have a non degreed non corrupt politician.

that's a horrible choice to make, an honest idiot with great power might bring a disaster without even knowing it.

I would prefer a highly competitive political system with all sorts of different people as politicians, that has little to none power to affect real people's lives without consent

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#65

A warrant is not required for the government to purchase commercial data products and there are plenty of legitimate uses for this kind of data. Security analytics would seem to be an obvious use case for netflow data, for example. Commercial datasets are also used for address correction and standardization and most government agencies routinely do.

>there are plenty of legitimate uses for this kind of data

Who defines "legitimate" and why should that be an argument for doing something that seems blatantly unconstitutional?

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#66

I don't support that kind of surveillance. That said, are they really in illegality ? Can I buy this type of localization data as a private individual ? If so, then they don't need a warrant, am I right ?

There are plenty of things a private citizen can do that a government entity cannot.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#67

Unsurprising, but still disappointing. Actually I'm glad someone is trying to hold them accountable. It seems silly tho that we need to pass a law to uphold what's already written into the constitution. It highlights that the constitution only has teeth in some legal contexts, primarily where a court case is being heard on a citizen being prosecuted. Conditionality seems to not have any bearing on preventing agencies…

i'd go one step further and prohibit our government from surveilling any non-governmental foreigner without an auditable warrant, and strictly prohibit corporations with heavy sanctions from sharing any non-governmental surveillance with the government whatsoever (on top of existing privacy laws of course). the government should be in service, not in command, of the people.

The text of the US constitution explicitly talks about the rights of people, not citizens - so I would argue that the constitution itself has always prohibited this.

However, there is a long history of interpreting 'people' to mean specific groups - from only white people to only citizens.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#68

Unsurprising, but still disappointing. Actually I'm glad someone is trying to hold them accountable. It seems silly tho that we need to pass a law to uphold what's already written into the constitution. It highlights that the constitution only has teeth in some legal contexts, primarily where a court case is being heard on a citizen being prosecuted. Conditionality seems to not have any bearing on preventing agencies…

i'd go one step further and prohibit our government from surveilling any non-governmental foreigner without an auditable warrant, and strictly prohibit corporations with heavy sanctions from sharing any non-governmental surveillance with the government whatsoever (on top of existing privacy laws of course). the government should be in service, not in command, of the people.

'Any non-governmental foreigner' includes the vast number of non-official-cover spies sent by other nations. The government is to serve the people, but it must balance the fact that other world powers and enemy nations are seeking to undermine the nation.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#70
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, the most tech-literate politician is without a doubt Thomas Massie, who went to MIT for both his undergrad in electrical engineering and his masters in mechanical engineering, who formed a decently successful startup working on novel computer input mechanisms. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Massie#Early_life,_educ...

reminds me of the politicians in my native country. very well educated either lawyers, engineers or doctors. but idiots and corrupt. I would rather have a non degreed non corrupt politician.

There is some common perception that an educated person is automatically a moral person. I can see why on average it could increase chances a bit, but my life experience contradicts this quite a bit. Upbringing, general environment and society, the rewards morality brings bear make much bigger impact. I would say even traveling the world, especially the not-so-nice parts and meeting poor ie via backpacking, has much bigger effect on personality than education.

Just one example out of many - last weekend had long conversation with very successful and very smart urology surgeon here in Switzerland, where he repeatedly stated how covid is great and godsend and mankind should be culled, too bad that not more are dying from it etc.

The same person who in his early 30s is quite a bit overweight, has type 3 diabetes, can't handle physical effort, passed to his kid some genetic abnormality and if he got covid he would probably have some serious issues.

I couldn't change his opinion a nanometer. A doctor. Needless to say my faith in humanity decreased a bit on that evening.

That and everybody has a price. Or almost everybody. Definitely those that manage to get to top politics and remain there for decades, it ain't for average joe and nice honest folks in any way.

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