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Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

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Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#11

Post by dragonwriter »

etrabroline wrote: post #8
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't watch because I am at work but the NSA conducts foreign surveillance. If a foreign target talks to a US citizen that's "unwittingly" surveiling a US citizen. Do you believe that it's alright for the NSA to conduct surveillance on foreign threats?

Under the 4th amendment NSA is forbidden from collecting the communications of US citizens without a warrant. Do you disagree or think the constitution should be amended to authorize that?

> Under the 4th amendment NSA is forbidden from collecting the communications of US citizens without a warrant.

Strictly by the text this is false in a couple respects:

(1) the text does not refer to or limit its provisions to citizens at all.

(2) the text prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures, not those without warrants (it also sets standards for warrants, when they are issued.)

The Supreme Court has inferred from the juxtaposition of the reasonableness requirement and warrant standards that warrants are presumptively but not universally required for reasonableness.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#13

Post by HumblyTossed »

mc32 wrote: post #6
billytetrud wrote: post #2

Unsurprising, but still disappointing. Actually I'm glad someone is trying to hold them accountable. It seems silly tho that we need to pass a law to uphold what's already written into the constitution. It highlights that the constitution only has teeth in some legal contexts, primarily where a court case is being heard on a citizen being prosecuted. Conditionality seems to not have any bearing on preventing agencies…

We gotta thank the Bush admin for this. Obama had the opp to make things right, but passed and instead gave them a wink. Trump was never going to act against these interests even if he’d wanted to given all the other aspects he was embroiled in. And now Biden. No way is he going to buck the establishment. Unfortunately Ron Paul nor anyone like him will make it into office to dismantle this surveillance-industrial com…

Don't you mean Ron Wyden and not Ron Paul?

Otherwise you're pretty much spot on.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#14

Post by nickysielicki »

ssklash wrote: post #4

I knew before even reading that the senator would be Ron Wyden. He's a treasure and the most tech-literate politician I know of. Oregon is lucky to have him, and we could use a lot more like him.

Respectfully, the most tech-literate politician is without a doubt Thomas Massie, who went to MIT for both his undergrad in electrical engineering and his masters in mechanical engineering, who formed a decently successful startup working on novel computer input mechanisms.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Massie#Early_life,_educ...

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#16

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

ssklash wrote: post #4

I knew before even reading that the senator would be Ron Wyden. He's a treasure and the most tech-literate politician I know of. Oregon is lucky to have him, and we could use a lot more like him.

He's one of the very few politicians I support with little to no reservations about him getting stuff really wrong. We are indeed extremely proud to have him.

I know enough people wired into local politics that if he had some huge hidden dark side, it'd be out there. He really is pretty much what he puts out there.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#17

Post by ssklash »

nickysielicki wrote: post #14
ssklash wrote: post #4

I knew before even reading that the senator would be Ron Wyden. He's a treasure and the most tech-literate politician I know of. Oregon is lucky to have him, and we could use a lot more like him.

Respectfully, the most tech-literate politician is without a doubt Thomas Massie, who went to MIT for both his undergrad in electrical engineering and his masters in mechanical engineering, who formed a decently successful startup working on novel computer input mechanisms. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Massie#Early_life,_educ...

Fair enough. I think it would be more accurate to say that Wyden is the most vocal and effective when it comes to tech-related issues.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#18

Post by verall »

nickysielicki wrote: post #14
ssklash wrote: post #4

I knew before even reading that the senator would be Ron Wyden. He's a treasure and the most tech-literate politician I know of. Oregon is lucky to have him, and we could use a lot more like him.

Respectfully, the most tech-literate politician is without a doubt Thomas Massie, who went to MIT for both his undergrad in electrical engineering and his masters in mechanical engineering, who formed a decently successful startup working on novel computer input mechanisms. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Massie#Early_life,_educ...

And yet he is publicly against Net Neutrality and doesn't believe in climate change. Tribal affiliation takes priority over technical ability I guess.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#19

Post by clairity »

billytetrud wrote: post #2

Unsurprising, but still disappointing. Actually I'm glad someone is trying to hold them accountable. It seems silly tho that we need to pass a law to uphold what's already written into the constitution. It highlights that the constitution only has teeth in some legal contexts, primarily where a court case is being heard on a citizen being prosecuted. Conditionality seems to not have any bearing on preventing agencies…

i'd go one step further and prohibit our government from surveilling any non-governmental foreigner without an auditable warrant, and strictly prohibit corporations with heavy sanctions from sharing any non-governmental surveillance with the government whatsoever (on top of existing privacy laws of course). the government should be in service, not in command, of the people.

Re: Pentagon surveilling Americans without a warrant, Senator Wyden reveals

#20

Post by CWuestefeld »

mc32 wrote: post #6
billytetrud wrote: post #2

Unsurprising, but still disappointing. Actually I'm glad someone is trying to hold them accountable. It seems silly tho that we need to pass a law to uphold what's already written into the constitution. It highlights that the constitution only has teeth in some legal contexts, primarily where a court case is being heard on a citizen being prosecuted. Conditionality seems to not have any bearing on preventing agencies…

We gotta thank the Bush admin for this. Obama had the opp to make things right, but passed and instead gave them a wink. Trump was never going to act against these interests even if he’d wanted to given all the other aspects he was embroiled in. And now Biden. No way is he going to buck the establishment. Unfortunately Ron Paul nor anyone like him will make it into office to dismantle this surveillance-industrial com…

Yes, blame GWB. But I'm not sure why you're giving a pass to Obama, Trump, and Biden. Their failure to address it is every bit as bad as anything that was (presumably) set up under Bush.
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