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Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

businessinsider.com.au

351–360 of 431 posts

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buffett always complains that he did not pay enough tax. He could simply wire 50% of his fortune to the IRS. His secretary had no choice. (End of sarcasm) They should donate to a foundation. They should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). Their family (direct or indirect) should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). The problem with these structures is that they allow someone to control and directly b…

millions of Americans struggle with basic expenses. Such expenses are recurring. even if he gave half, it would not last long enough to fix those problems.

Agree - which is why he says it's a systemic problem that needs fixing.

All of these, frankly, stupid arguments that he should just give the IRS money for no reason because they don't tax him high enough is ridiculous. Literally a drop in the bucket. Full year budget - $4.89 Trillion in 2019.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#352
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: When you have an agenda that wants to spend an additional $6tillion do you really care that much about tax revenues? (On top of the $5 trillion from the past year) At that point does it really matter how much you collect? You’ve clearly given up all semblance of trying to balance a budget. At this point we’re pretty deep in the new-age progressive economic policy ideology, where taxes aren’t about bu…

By that logic, isn't taxing lower-income people taking even more money out of the economy, since poorer people spend a much higher percentage of their earnings?

100% of $10 is still less than 20% of $100 but taxing corporations doesn’t do the same thing as taxing ppl and the purpose is to remove money from the economy not ensure everyone fairly contributes to the national coffers. We should be working on the most effective way to remove money from the economy not worrying about who’s paying what.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#353
post #19

> Uber transfered its intellectual property through a $16 billion “loan” from one of its subsidiaries in Singapore that in turn owns one of Uber’s Dutch shell companies, a manuever that grants the company a $1 billion tax break every year for the next 20 years, the researchers found. Shit like this makes my head hurt and infuriates me at the same time.

I've taken to calling it anti-American (or anti-whatever country in which they're minimizing their taxes). How better to tell the world that you don't care about the societies that made your success possible than to refuse to help fund them?

Avoiding taxes is as American as baseball and apple pie.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#354
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this seems to be about uber activities outside the US Wrong. This is Uber transferring money all around the world through shell companies so it's hard to figure out where it came from. Just like a crypto-mixer. This quote alone shows how they initially transferred a good chunk of money out of the US: Uber transferred its intellectual property through a $16 billion “loan” from one of its subsidiaries in Singapore th…

All the people who have gone to jail for tax evasion are not having good success with the argument that taxes are unconstitutional.

There's a really nice document that lists incoherent tax arguments in the US.

https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/the-truth-about-frivo...

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having large multinational corporations is hugely beneficial to the Irish economy, through direct employment. Sure any company that is just a brass plaque and funneling money through Ireland is of no benefit, but most of the big ones have significant high quality high tech jobs here. Apple, Facebook, Google, Intel, you name it, they all have huge operations here.

Yes and no. Ireland may seem materially better off than they were before, but they've effectively been recolonized. Putting aside matters of tax evasion, these corporations aren't sticking to just employing labor. They're also politically influential. The rapid shift in Irish cultural norms in recent years is jaw-dropping.

Tax evasion should be prosecuted, but I believe most of the time I read about these companies and taxes, it's about tax avoidance, such as the source article for this thread.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#356
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of the top 1% are "normal workers" like me - engineers at Google - or my cousin - a radiologist - or one of my best friends - an investment banker - or lawyers, or owners of successful small businesses, etc... These "normal workers" pay a lot of that 40% of the tax bill. There aren't that many CEOs of Fortune 500 companies and board members, A+ list celebrities, and aristocrats. You're getting into the .01% - tha…

Is this satire? I mean, you’re pointing your finger at the And I love the call out about your everyday working schmuck cousin, you know, the radiologist, who is in one of the highest paid professions and if he’s in the US is likely making close to $500,000 per year. Almost 10x the median US salary. https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/radiologist...

They make more money because they are more productive and their services are highly valued. Those people already bear disproportional burden when it comes to taxes.

I mean, what do you really want? Everyone works according to abilities and everyone is provided for according to their needs?

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#357
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry what? Buffet shouldn’t have just cut the IRS a check for $2B because it’s “meaningless to just send the money”? So unless all the pieces are in place there is no value in paying the amount in taxes you publicly claim you should pay? That’s like saying alcohol should be illegal, but drinking all the time. “Well, there is no point in me not drinking, the point is to change the law”. That makes zero sense.

Disagree. Why would you arbitrarily pay the IRS money if you didn't owe them anything. It would put himself in a weaker competitive position against his competitors and for what benefit? I completely disagree with you. The move should be to change the system.

You pay them because your argument is “i should be paying more”.

It’s hard to take someone seriously when they say they should pay more tax, have every opportunity to pay more tax, yet choose not to pay more tax.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#358
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this satire? I mean, you’re pointing your finger at the And I love the call out about your everyday working schmuck cousin, you know, the radiologist, who is in one of the highest paid professions and if he’s in the US is likely making close to $500,000 per year. Almost 10x the median US salary. https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/radiologist...

They make more money because they are more productive and their services are highly valued. Those people already bear disproportional burden when it comes to taxes. I mean, what do you really want? Everyone works according to abilities and everyone is provided for according to their needs?

I’m not arguing the rich need to pay more, I’m arguing that the OP is wrong to argue he’s just a “normal worker” and shouldn’t be paying a large tax burden when he makes more than 99% of the population.

Basically when the OP says “the rich should pay more” I’m saying “ok, but that includes you”

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#359
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken to calling it anti-American (or anti-whatever country in which they're minimizing their taxes). How better to tell the world that you don't care about the societies that made your success possible than to refuse to help fund them?

You write laws and tell companies to follow strictly the letter of the law or else. And that's precisely what they do. The problem doesn't sit at the companies.

Tax laws are what's written in acts and statutes, but also how the courts interpret those laws.

When a company plans their tax they can either use the laws as they're intended (tax planning), they can deceive the tax authorities in order to illegally reduce their tax burden (tax evasion) or they can use the laws in ways which aren't necessarily intended, but which aren't yet outright illegal because we haven't had a court ruling yet (tax avoidance).

It's really easy to say "just change the law", but there are problems with that.

Prosecuting complex tax cases is fantastically expensive, and so tax authorities tend to only go to court when i) the case is obvious and ii) everything else has failed. (This includes for the small guy too -- if I chose not to pay my tax there are escalating steps of intervention before I get prosecuted). This means we simply don't know if a particular tax avoidance scheme is illegal or not, and we're unlikely to find out unless the tax authorities move to a more punitive regime.

And we don't necessarily want to give more power to the state. We want to limit the power of the state to some extent, which is why a lot of pretty unpleasant behaviours are perfectly legal, and it's why we impose that "beyond all reasonable doubt" requirement on criminal conviction.

Corporate values aren't (at least they shouldn't be) nonsense. A company could say "we do this because it's legally mandated and we don't have a choice", but that's the worst reason for doing something. Companies that make use of education, transport infrastructure, policing, healthcare, (all the things that are paid for by taxation) should pay their fair amount of tax, rather than using the law in weird unexpected ways to reduce their tax burden by an unreasonable amount.

There is a cultural thing going on here. No-one in the UK is saying that companies should go out of their way to pay more tax than they need to. And reducing their tax burden a bit is probably seen as okay. But we do have the concept of "taking the piss", and a lot of these companies are taking the piss. They need to realise that public tolerance for this is low and reducing, and that if they don't change their behaviours they're going to see increased tax regulation.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#360
post #298
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument gets played frequently but it misses the a point. Buffet is not complaining that he has not been able to send enough money to the government he is complaining that the system has no way to take the money from people like him. It’s is meaningless to send more money as the complaint is about the system and how it deals with the overall group he is a part of. The consistent criticism is that Buffet has not…

I’m sorry what? Buffet shouldn’t have just cut the IRS a check for $2B because it’s “meaningless to just send the money”? So unless all the pieces are in place there is no value in paying the amount in taxes you publicly claim you should pay? That’s like saying alcohol should be illegal, but drinking all the time. “Well, there is no point in me not drinking, the point is to change the law”. That makes zero sense.

The argument is usually that you personally making the change isn't significant. Even $2B from Buffet isn't significant on a "US government" level. So making that change would "hurt" Buffet a lot for not much gain.

Changing the law, on the other hand, is significant, because it impacts every millionaire/billionaire.

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