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Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

businessinsider.com.au

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Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#291

Post by perryizgr8 »

IneffablePigeon wrote: post #266
dlp211 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the poor and working class spend all their money on necessities and in doing so incur higher effective transaction taxes relative to their income.

Does differential tax rates on necessities Vs luxuries help here? For example, in the UK, sales tax is discounted or not applied on many types of food, children's clothes, etc. - yes, you end up with strange arguments at the edges (a famous one being the lawsuit to decide whether Jaffa Cakes are legally cakes or biscuits) but I think it _could_ work.

> lawsuit to decide whether Jaffa Cakes are legally cakes or biscuits

We had a lawsuit to determine if KitKat is a chocolate or a biscuit for similar reasons:

https://www.businessinsider.in/KitKat-is-a-biscuit-and-Parac...

> In the case of Nestle India Ltd Vs Commissioner of Central Excise, Mumbai of 1999, it was ruled that KitKat is a biscuit and not a chocolate that is taxed high.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#292

Post by refurb »

elliekelly wrote: post #161
Fern_Blossom wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: Stop thinking of lobbying as a corporate only tool and understand the system was devised as a way for specialized interested (technocratic) to influence congress in an efficient and informed way. The lobbyist system is open to all by purpose. The real problem: the general public doesn't actually give a shit about wiping its own ass when it comes to dealing with their own government. Whose fault is it when y…

Okay then go to K Street and hire yourself a lobbyist. Unless you know someone or have a lot of money under your control you won’t even be able to get a meeting. Your suggestion is as ridiculous as telling the average person to “just ask the Fed for money” when they can’t make rent. If you truly believe the system is equally “open to all” then you have bought the bullshit lobbyists have been selling the public hook,…

I mean, if you donate to the ACLU your money goes to lobbying. The comment isn’t wrong.

Nothing stops citizens from organizing a non-profit to lobby the government. I’ve worked with a few groups that lobby for better healthcare coverage. They go to Washington once to year. They are surprisingly effective in getting changes passed.

Actually being more “grassroots” makes the lobbying easier. It’s harder for a Congressperson to reject a meeting from their constituents.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#293

Post by refurb »

MikeTheGreat wrote: post #208
Fern_Blossom wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: Stop thinking of lobbying as a corporate only tool and understand the system was devised as a way for specialized interested (technocratic) to influence congress in an efficient and informed way. The lobbyist system is open to all by purpose. The real problem: the general public doesn't actually give a shit about wiping its own ass when it comes to dealing with their own government. Whose fault is it when y…

This reminds me of a saying I once heard: "In it's grand equality the law forbids both the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges" I mean, sure the lobbying system is "open" to all, but not everyone can actually participate in it or utilize it, even if they're technically allowed to.

Of course you can. It happens all the time. There is nothing stopping you from calling your Congresspersons office and asking for a meeting. Obviously the more people you represent, the better, but you’d be surprised how effective even a small group can be in terms of pushing issues.

Here is an example of a state bleeding disorders non-profit that meet with Senators in DC every year.

https://cthemophilia.org/events/washington-days-2020/

I also worked with an entrepreneurship group at a college. The head told a story where he went to DC and his senator had their staff type up the law with him there. Brought it to the floor that day. It didn’t pass but I was amazed at what got done through one person’s advocacy.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#294

Post by syshum »

flukus wrote: post #87
syshum wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rofl... Sorry no you are completely off base. First off I hope the only that keep you from being a thief is not that someone would defend themselves from your attempt. Personally I steal from people as much as I desire to. Which is none at all However self defense is not in viewed philosophy as a threat of violence. Violence that we are talking about here is the itiation of violence for which governments alone have t…

It's not self defense because you aren't defending yourself in this scenario, you're defending your property. It's only your property because you can defend it, but most of the time you won't have to because we all agree that you own it. The same goes for money, you're money is your property because we all agree it is, especially in the modern world where their is no physical item and inherent value. All the money yo…

>>It's not self defense because you aren't defending yourself in this scenario, you're defending your property.

Based on the rest of your comments I then assume you reject all Enlightenment based philosophy, Locke, Adam Smith, etc etc

The core of enlightenment based philosophy, aka the foundation of our modern society, is that you do have natural rights. Governments are instituted to secure these natural rights. if you are going to now reject those bedrock principles then you have to completely reject society as we know it as well, and the founding documents of most nations including the US Constitution for the USA, Charter of Rights for Canada, etc etc

Inherent in that foundation is the concept of property, as property is an extension of your self, your labor. If you have no right to property, you have no right to your labor, thus you have no right to your self.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#295

Post by secfirstmd »

one2three4 wrote: post #289
secfirstmd wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Ireland it also would require other countries drop the hidden advantages to business that countries grant to gain unfair advantage. Germany blocking regulation of car emissions and it's control/manipulation of the Euro to ensure its advantage, France's support to state industries and use of its intelligence services to gain competitive business contracts, the US subsidising research through military inv…

Ireland, is far from a rocky poor outcrop. A look at the cost of living indexes will convince anyone. And what is frequently missed on it is that this -surreal COL- is yet another form of indirect taxation on the salaries of people. So, it's a bit more sinister than letting the companies tax evade. Ireland is moving the tax burden down to its workers, out to the rest of EU and off the big companies and the landlords…

Yes agreed. The COL is stupid for what you get in return. It's shifting the burden from big business to the employees.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#296

Post by oblio »

granzymes wrote: post #153
yojo wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economist has a nice chart on this. The US has a lower share of taxes paid by corporations relative to other sources than our peers. https://archive.is/ND3cQ

At 24.6%, the US had an effective average corporate tax rate somewhat in the middle of the pack in 2019. In 2017, at 37.5%, it was the second highest in the world, so which year you look at is very important. It's also important to realize that a large portion (~10%) of individual income taxes are actually from pass-through business income. https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=CTS_ETR

Isn't 2017 an outlier? Didn't Trump pass a one time law allowing for repatriation of profits at a lower tax rate? That's not sustainable.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#297

Post by happytoexplain »

esyir wrote: post #276
burkaman wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Becoming a CEO does not magically make your responsibility to society disappear. Shareholders are an additional thing you need to worry about, not the only thing. > stop vilifying people for making money Why? They're doing it in a vile way.

I'll put it a different way. Most people don't see issues with that, they see issues with shit legislation. You want an effective method? Provide a negative incentive to correct that. Its far more effective to do that. Talking about how we should get them to change their morality may give us the feel goods, but that's about all it'll do.

Again - there is no reason not to do both. Dissatisfaction is not a limited resource. I haven't heard a convincing reason to refrain from criticizing the business practices in question that doesn't simply ignore the practical points I've been making. Re-read my post near the top of this thread.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#298

Post by refurb »

bnjms wrote: post #213
IdontRememberIt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buffett always complains that he did not pay enough tax. He could simply wire 50% of his fortune to the IRS. His secretary had no choice. (End of sarcasm) They should donate to a foundation. They should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). Their family (direct or indirect) should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). The problem with these structures is that they allow someone to control and directly b…

This argument gets played frequently but it misses the a point. Buffet is not complaining that he has not been able to send enough money to the government he is complaining that the system has no way to take the money from people like him. It’s is meaningless to send more money as the complaint is about the system and how it deals with the overall group he is a part of. The consistent criticism is that Buffet has not…

I’m sorry what?

Buffet shouldn’t have just cut the IRS a check for $2B because it’s “meaningless to just send the money”?

So unless all the pieces are in place there is no value in paying the amount in taxes you publicly claim you should pay?

That’s like saying alcohol should be illegal, but drinking all the time. “Well, there is no point in me not drinking, the point is to change the law”.

That makes zero sense.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#299

Post by refurb »

KirillPanov wrote: post #254
toast0 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trump tax changes actually did. IIRC, a US corporation is taxed either 20% of US net income or 10% of global net income with credits for overseas taxes paid, whichever is more. Corrections welcome, I likely misremembered something. The idea being if you paid at least 10% on the income in the jurisdiction where it was earned, great; if not, you'll pay it at home. This replaced a higher rate on US net income and gl…

Incorporate in a low/zero-tax jurisdiction. Form a second corporation that resells your product to your US customers at an insignificant markup. It pays tax only on said insignificant markup. The company it buys from has no US operations or dealings of any kind, therefore does not even file US returns.

Looking up “transfer pricing regulations” to see why this doesn’t really work.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#300

Post by sgerenser »

seattle_spring wrote: post #127

It's nuts to me that our government lets this happen, yet strives to vilify the upper middle class as the "billionaire class" and tax the shit out of them.

I’ve never heard the upper middle class called the “billionaire class.” Can you give an example?
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