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Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

businessinsider.com.au

261–270 of 431 posts

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#261
post #91
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to stop me from hiding my capital gains in a series of shell companies?

Good luck exfiltrating it back to your bank account.

The difference is you only need to transfer enough money to your personal bank account to cover your annual expenses. So if you make $500k/year but only spend $100k/year, then the other $400k will continue to grow tax free.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#262

I've heard this suggested before: abolish all corporate tax and increase capital gains tax to equal income tax. This will level the playing field between large and small businesses, since the former has the means to dodge byzantine corporate tax laws. It will also give an incentive for companies to stay onshore. Any downsides?

Yes. > increase capital gains tax to equal income tax Is far easier said than done. For example, would you include the $250K capital gains deduction for selling a home in that? Additionally, you're probably referring to raising long-term capital gains tax, but that has the side effect of disincentivizing long-term investment in favor of more short-term speculation.

Not at all. Many countries already do this. For example, in Australia, capital gains is considered as income. It contributes to your progressive tax bracket the same way income does. For property, you do not pay capital gains tax when you sell your primary residence (that you live in) but you do on investment properties.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#263
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is saying top 1% income in the US is numbers higher than $400k! The median was something like $50k or $80k last time I checked. Those aren't normal workers, those are exactly there sort of people who are seen as not contributing their fair share. They physically can't be working harder than a median worker but they're getting multiples of the salary. If someone is going to be supporting society, they are…

> Those aren't normal workers What's your definition of a normal worker? Lawyers, doctors, dentists, pilots, architects and programmers sound like normal workers to me. This is still millions of people, and I imagine they would think they're normal workers, too. But Fortune 500 CEOs? Well, there's only... 500. Even the combined payroll of the MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL, and MLS is less than 10,000 professional athletes where…

I'm going to point at the median worker, they're pretty normal.

All the people you're listing aren't necessarily normal workers - observe that some of them are part of the much-vaunted 1%.

I don't really understand the mindset that people are grumpy about the 1% and then interpret that as "oh really they're on the side of the 1% they mean the 0.1%". If anything, it might be the other way around and they mean the 10%.

The argument is there need to be more transfer payments. A mindset that CEOs need to pay but not fabulously wealthy doctors/dentists/programmers is a mystery to me. What even is the argument?

These are people who either need to work for 2 years (pre-tax) to live comfortably for a decade or they're squandering their earnings. They are outrageously wealthy.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#265

Honest question: Who here will stop using Uber because of this? Anyone?

Plenty of companies do this, especially successful companies. Google, Apple are all doing the same sort of thing this isn't unique to Uber by any means.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#266
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Implemented on its own, people would go hungry, causing social unrest. Why would that happen?

Because the poor and working class spend all their money on necessities and in doing so incur higher effective transaction taxes relative to their income.

Does differential tax rates on necessities Vs luxuries help here?

For example, in the UK, sales tax is discounted or not applied on many types of food, children's clothes, etc. - yes, you end up with strange arguments at the edges (a famous one being the lawsuit to decide whether Jaffa Cakes are legally cakes or biscuits) but I think it _could_ work.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#267
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of the top 1% are "normal workers" like me - engineers at Google - or my cousin - a radiologist - or one of my best friends - an investment banker - or lawyers, or owners of successful small businesses, etc... These "normal workers" pay a lot of that 40% of the tax bill. There aren't that many CEOs of Fortune 500 companies and board members, A+ list celebrities, and aristocrats. You're getting into the .01% - tha…

That article is saying top 1% income in the US is numbers higher than $400k! The median was something like $50k or $80k last time I checked. Those aren't normal workers, those are exactly there sort of people who are seen as not contributing their fair share. They physically can't be working harder than a median worker but they're getting multiples of the salary. If someone is going to be supporting society, they are…

400K is not real rich territory. Wealth follows a power law.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#268
Survival of the fittest at its finest.

What's so amazing about those tax dodging stories, is how there are no protest about it. It's so complex that you get into arguments with market fundamentalist who will answer with economic theories, and the debate gets lost because of the low attention span of the audience.

The problem is not capitalism, the problem is that it's rotten from the inside. Honestly, it seems the same thing happened to the Soviet Union. In my view it's quite concerning to hear people say communism is evil just by quoting the history of the soviet union, while dismissing both the political AND economic problems of capitalism.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#269
post #40

I always feel a bit sad when I read my home country is used for these kind of things. Most of the time the companies still are depending on services of these countries to be able to be in business but don't pay their fair share.

Does the Netherlands get any benefits by offering these "services"? Is the gratitude of those using them beneficial? To whom exactly?

And if not, then why is it not stopped? It is not exactly a poor county, that has no choice but to let things like this happen for some dirty dollars on the side. It should not be too difficult to at least catch the biggest fish playing this game.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#270
post #33

This should be stamped out and severely penalised. I'd even go as far as banning such company from operating in the country until they close entire tax avoidance network. If you wanted to create a local Uber clone, you just won't be able to compete because from the start you'll have to pay probably order of magnitude more tax than a big corporation. Then less competition means less innovation, consumers are worse off…

I wouldn't be so harsh, but I would stop allowing them to sue in US court for some things. Sorry, your IP is in the Netherlands, go file there. See how quick many companies pull their IP back.

Not many I expect. Needing to hire Dutch lawyers is not such a big hurdle when you are saving billions.
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