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Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

businessinsider.com.au

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Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#211

Post by dlp211 »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #203
markvdb wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A simple tax like that on its own is also socially regressive. Implemented on its own, people would go hungry, causing social unrest. What would you suggest as a simple social stabiliser on top? A negative personal income tax up to a certain rate?

> Implemented on its own, people would go hungry, causing social unrest. Why would that happen?

Because the poor and working class spend all their money on necessities and in doing so incur higher effective transaction taxes relative to their income.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#213

Post by bnjms »

IdontRememberIt wrote: post #105
thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would someone at that level of wealth give in a more empathetic way? What should Bill and Buffett be doing instead?

Buffett always complains that he did not pay enough tax. He could simply wire 50% of his fortune to the IRS. His secretary had no choice. (End of sarcasm) They should donate to a foundation. They should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). Their family (direct or indirect) should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). The problem with these structures is that they allow someone to control and directly b…

This argument gets played frequently but it misses the a point. Buffet is not complaining that he has not been able to send enough money to the government he is complaining that the system has no way to take the money from people like him. It’s is meaningless to send more money as the complaint is about the system and how it deals with the overall group he is a part of.

The consistent criticism is that Buffet has not put in enough lobbying to change the system. He could afford building of lobbyists and not farms and burned out influencers manipulating public consensus. Now that’s a a decent criticism. But no one should ever have to pay more than they must, just to have an opinion on their own government.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#214

Post by easytiger »

paxys wrote: post #19

> Uber transfered its intellectual property through a $16 billion “loan” from one of its subsidiaries in Singapore that in turn owns one of Uber’s Dutch shell companies, a manuever that grants the company a $1 billion tax break every year for the next 20 years, the researchers found. Shit like this makes my head hurt and infuriates me at the same time.

Why?

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#215

Post by bnjms »

ABCLAW wrote: post #152
IdontRememberIt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buffett always complains that he did not pay enough tax. He could simply wire 50% of his fortune to the IRS. His secretary had no choice. (End of sarcasm) They should donate to a foundation. They should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). Their family (direct or indirect) should not have link with it (direct or indirect ). The problem with these structures is that they allow someone to control and directly b…

>Buffett always complains that he did not pay enough tax. He could simply wire 50% of his fortune to the IRS. His secretary had no choice. (End of sarcasm) Wealth is competitive. Over time, having a higher rate of return than someone else results in substantial differences in overall wealth. Everyone in his position being on the same playing field and chipping in equally is not the same as him martyring himself and l…

Said better than I in fewer words

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#216

Post by staplers »

shostack wrote: post #158
lumost wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core claim above is that ultimately the foundation is a lip service activity to preserve wealth. If a hundred billionaire pays out 1 billion dollars in philanthropy via the foundation, but earns 10 billion tax free then they are doing quite well. It's a trivial matter to write the terms of the foundation such that yourself/successors can draw permanent income via "board" positions, advisory roles, or other means.

How would that work exactly? Genuine question, I've never understood how donating saves on taxes, you have to pay at some point to access the money, no?

I think the idea is that you "pay" the charity instead of the tax man.

This in turn allows you to take income from the charity (as an advisor/board member/fake title) so you're getting some back (with 40% taxed as income) via charity "employment".

Then as a cherry on top, you get to push headlines that you are altruistic and have buildings named after you.

Also, your friends can be advisors/board members for your charity and donate you gifts.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#217

Post by Vinnl »

fighterpilot wrote: post #78

I've heard this suggested before: abolish all corporate tax and increase capital gains tax to equal income tax. This will level the playing field between large and small businesses, since the former has the means to dodge byzantine corporate tax laws. It will also give an incentive for companies to stay onshore. Any downsides?

First time I've heard of it, but one thing that comes to mind: if a company is very successful in the Netherlands, in part due to being able to make use of its excellent infrastructure, but its owners are in the US, then they will not be contributing to the maintenance of that infrastructure. You'd then lose the positive feedback loop of the infra paying for itself, enabling more successful businesses.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#218

Post by speleding »

jb775 wrote: post #193
colechristensen wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One: this seems to be about uber activities outside the US Two: the US is actively working on what it is calling a global minimum corporate tax Three: anonymous shell companies were made illegal in the US in January It seems your comment is rather uninformed. There is of course much to do but it is hard to look at what is happening and come to the conclusion that it is all nothing

> this seems to be about uber activities outside the US Wrong. This is Uber transferring money all around the world through shell companies so it's hard to figure out where it came from. Just like a crypto-mixer. This quote alone shows how they initially transferred a good chunk of money out of the US: Uber transferred its intellectual property through a $16 billion “loan” from one of its subsidiaries in Singapore th…

Uber has its corporate head quarters for the EU in Amsterdam. For a company the size of Uber to have 50 different entities is not particularly special, you will find several other American multinationals there with the same number (for example, one for each jurisdiction they operate in).

The term "shell companies" seems to imply something nefarious, and that may very well be the case, but in itself having 50 entities in The Netherlands is not really a sign of that.

It's also important to point out that they do not chose The Netherlands for low corporate tax rates, they are not the lowest in the EU by far, but because of "tax rulings". Those are agreements they can make with the tax authorities that ascertain them how much tax they will pay this year as long as revenue, costs, etc, stay within a certain bandwidth. In the US it can take over a year for them to get any certainty on what their tax bill would be for the previous year.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#219

Post by refurb »

seaourfreed wrote: post #93

Congress is corrupt (via lobbyists). Congress would make this illegal if congress men/women didn't sell out American Citizens. 88% of the cost of the US Fed gov is paid for by taxes by workers (income taxes). Less than 12% comes from all corp/business taxes combined with capital gains (taxing the rich 1%). Business shifting tax burden to workers is a massive scale problem. $3.5 Trillion = US Tax Revenues (2019) and 8…

Capital gains taxes fall under income taxes.

Spending money on lobbyists is not corruption. Is the ACLU corrupting Congress through its lobbying?

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#220

Post by PaulRobinson »

I find tax avoidance stories/headlines that focus on revenue numbers (which aren’t taxed), vs profits (which are), grating.

I get that the trick being used is to move some of the profits into loan payments or license fees to reduce profitability but you can’t expect people who care about business to care about headlines like this.

If somebody tells me “X paid Y in taxes on Z revenues”, I’m just figuring out their margins. Telling me that 50% of their cost base is a loan or license fee to a parent or sister company tells me a lot more…

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