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Covid-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says

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Re: Covid-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says

#11

Post by lostcolony »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #6
garyfirestorm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think generally US has carried that role in past until 2016. Either by partnerships or by holding a gun to other people’s head, US has exercised a self preservation strategy which had some effect on remaining world. For eg. Obama admin had narrowed down Ebola and contained it[1]. That indirectly was beneficial for rest of the world. Unfortunately the last administration deserted from these responsibilities thereby…

I think this is bit charitable, to say the least. Long before Obama the "US-led international order" was also screwing up on Global Warming. Only Hitler could unite most the rest of the world, and only then because that was near the peak of colonialism so world power had never been so concentrated.

Just because the US' leadership is absent in one area does not preclude it from being present and effective somewhere else.

Similarly, just because the US' leadership is both absent and therefore ineffective in an area does not imply that were the US' leadership present, it would still be ineffective.

Certainly, per the parent comment, we have examples of the US' past leadership in this context leading to a very different outcome. We know that leadership was abdicated (and in fact, actively eviscerated) during the prior presidency.

Re: Covid-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says

#12

Post by bourgwaletariat »

Yeah, just don't do GoF research. Or don't let it escape from a lab. Or, don't lie about it when it does. Or, contain it if it does. Or shut down travel outside the country if it does. Or, don't cripple Australia with a trade war if they suggest an investigation into the origins of the disease are warranted. Or don't cancel people if they wonder if maybe it didn't come from nature. Or, do the audits to verify the labs doing catastrophic research are doing it safely and properly. Or, don't sneak in funding for something that has already been declared a risk to human existence. Or, don't pay "non-profits" millions of dollars to pay enemy nations to do research into how to turn a virus into a bioweapon. Or value the health of the world over the profits of corporations.

I bet none of these ideas are in the report.

* read article *

Nope.

* reads report *

Oh, I got one: Waive IP rights to vaccines.

Their suggestion: Give the WHO more money. They'll do it better next time apparently.

I guarantee you, if China had said, "A bioweapon we were developing escaped the lab, lock everything down!"

This would not have happened.

Re: Covid-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says

#13

Post by nemothekid »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #6
garyfirestorm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think generally US has carried that role in past until 2016. Either by partnerships or by holding a gun to other people’s head, US has exercised a self preservation strategy which had some effect on remaining world. For eg. Obama admin had narrowed down Ebola and contained it[1]. That indirectly was beneficial for rest of the world. Unfortunately the last administration deserted from these responsibilities thereby…

I think this is bit charitable, to say the least. Long before Obama the "US-led international order" was also screwing up on Global Warming. Only Hitler could unite most the rest of the world, and only then because that was near the peak of colonialism so world power had never been so concentrated.

Personally I don’t think the missing global leadership was with the president - it’s with Congress. The president gives us a nice “name” to blame but it’s clear that since around 2007 Congress has largely abdicated their role in US politics leaving open a huge power vacuum.

Even if a president wanted to tackle climate change, a border wall or a Babylon tower they would be unable to get anything done before their term is up. I’m not old enough to know how things felt before Bush, but it seems like Congress used to actually exercise its power in the past

Re: Covid-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says

#14

Post by The_Amp_Walrus »

Uhuh the WHO has concluded that more power and control should be ceded to the WHO in emergencies:

"""

Identifying a systemic issue, the report said the WHO lacks the power to investigate and act swiftly when confronted with potential outbreaks.

"Technical expert missions can be dispatched to individual countries only with their permission, and a system of preauthorization of missions has not been established," the report said. "Often lengthy negotiations with governments for access by missions are required after an outbreak has been notified."

"""

There's a "systemic issue" where you won't let our 'expert missions' into your country and boss you around.

Re: Covid-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says

#15

Post by Ericson2314 »

nemothekid wrote: post #13
Ericson2314 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is bit charitable, to say the least. Long before Obama the "US-led international order" was also screwing up on Global Warming. Only Hitler could unite most the rest of the world, and only then because that was near the peak of colonialism so world power had never been so concentrated.

Personally I don’t think the missing global leadership was with the president - it’s with Congress. The president gives us a nice “name” to blame but it’s clear that since around 2007 Congress has largely abdicated their role in US politics leaving open a huge power vacuum. Even if a president wanted to tackle climate change, a border wall or a Babylon tower they would be unable to get anything done before their term…

By "Obama" I'm referring to the era. I agree the focus on presidents is silly; GP was contrasting Trump on Covid-19 vs Obama on Ebola and I think that's a silly comparison. Trump is terrible of course, but that is not really the relevant story here.

Re: Covid-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says

#17

Post by disabled »

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #16

repost top level link, dunno what this WBUR stuff is https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/0...

Thank you for the link. I am the original submitter of this topic. WBUR is Boston’s NPR station, which has a huge listener base, and I say this as a west coast person.

Re: Covid-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says

#18

Post by bourgwaletariat »

lostcolony wrote: post #11
Ericson2314 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is bit charitable, to say the least. Long before Obama the "US-led international order" was also screwing up on Global Warming. Only Hitler could unite most the rest of the world, and only then because that was near the peak of colonialism so world power had never been so concentrated.

Just because the US' leadership is absent in one area does not preclude it from being present and effective somewhere else. Similarly, just because the US' leadership is both absent and therefore ineffective in an area does not imply that were the US' leadership present, it would still be ineffective. Certainly, per the parent comment, we have examples of the US' past leadership in this context leading to a very diff…

It wasn't the leaders it was the followers. Or rather, those who refused to follow. No one followed up on the US leader's claim that it came from a lab. No, they said, "He said it so it's a lie!"

And they continue to say that. This isn't on Trump.

Re: Covid-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says

#19

Post by top_post »

Man, all the WHO bashing comments are getting downvoted pretty quickly, except:

- WHO took a _long_ time to declare a pandemic when member countries were asking for it.

- WHO actively discouraged international border closures for containment.

- WHO took way too long to declare aerosol transmission even when countries had identified it.

In a global scale event like this, there's no individual country who should have been the shepherd. It should have been the WHO, comprised of all its member inputs, really showing the lead here.

Each individual country owns responsibility for their own preparedness, no doubt or question about that, but the WHO needs a re-organization big time.

Re: Covid-19 Was 'A Preventable Disaster,' WHO-Ordered Report Says

#20

Post by sudosysgen »

Objectively, Covid-19 was a preventable disaster.

From all around the world, the issue was governmental competence.

Almost every government in the world did not treat the issue with the due amount of urgency.

Almost every government in the world screwed up on airborne transmission for a good while.

Almost every government downright minimized the issued and wasted precious months of time that could have been used to ramp up testing, set up contact tracing, and organize the initial lockdowns to be more effective. My country still doesn't have an effective contact tracing system with people employed there complaining of massive dysfunction, over a year in.

It's not for lack of power either - almost every government in the world has already assigned themselves a tremendous amount of emergency powers during pandemics and in general, from the authority to lockdown to mass surveillance.

Yet very few used this authority effectively. The governments that claimed not to want to use these powers by respect for civil rights overwhelmingly... Still reserve those powers to themselves and abuse them in ways that don't help.

Why is it that governments are so competent when it comes to mass surveillance and repression but completely fumble the ball in cases where governmental power is genuinely helpful and where the argument for them being justified is so much stronger?

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