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‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

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Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#51

Post by georgewsinger »

Here's a video of Antonio García Martínez actually explaining his book (dated 4 years ago): https://youtu.be/KE0pIKV5Mlc

The YouTube comments on this video seem stuck in time (4 years ago) before our current "PC" era. They're largely positive and have nothing to do with political commentary; e.g. the top two comments:

> This was one of the best interviews I have heard from TWIST. I've never listened to a single boring one but holy crap Antonio was such a pleasure to listen to.

and

> Love the insight; “radical candidness is endearing long term”

> At a visceral level, we respect the strength & stamina it takes to “suspend disbelief.”

> Excellent piece Jason.

I'm sure we can find some salacious quotes from this guy's book, but how many people in the latest cancel mob will take the time to read them in their full context before rushing to judgment? (I'm not rushing to judgment either way, but it does strike me that there's a good chance this guy is a blunt person who has some interesting things to say, perhaps some of it rough around the edges and offensive).

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#52

Post by ivraatiems »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #49
ivraatiems wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could he do the job if there were any female colleagues around? Clearly he's too busy thinking about whether they're attractive to focus on his work.

I guess we will never know since the mob made it clear that he does not belong despite claims of 'inclusive values' and 'diverse perspectives'. Its funny when those perspective and values include only those that are already acceptable to the mob.

By the mob you mean "the people who would have to work with him"?

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#53

Post by readonthegoapp »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #35
ryanwhitney wrote: post #19

Outside of the main quote that keeps showing up, he was also fairly creepy writing about women he worked with . > Unlike most women at Facebook (or in the Bay Area, really) she knew how to dress; forties-style, form-fitting dresses from neck to knee were her mainstay. > There were few women one would call conventionally attractive at Facebook. The few there were rarely if ever dressed for work with their femininity o…

The only thing that should matter is: Can he do the job? Whether he wrote a book people get their panties twisted over does not appear to be a part of that job description. When did this concept become so controversial?

This is a straight up sexist remark.

If part of the job is showing respect to all your coworkers, regardless of sex, then it seems obvious he is incapable.

Maybe his beliefs do not translate at all into his behavior, but I doubt it.

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#54

Post by dillondoyle »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #35
ryanwhitney wrote: post #19

Outside of the main quote that keeps showing up, he was also fairly creepy writing about women he worked with . > Unlike most women at Facebook (or in the Bay Area, really) she knew how to dress; forties-style, form-fitting dresses from neck to knee were her mainstay. > There were few women one would call conventionally attractive at Facebook. The few there were rarely if ever dressed for work with their femininity o…

The only thing that should matter is: Can he do the job? Whether he wrote a book people get their panties twisted over does not appear to be a part of that job description. When did this concept become so controversial?

Because it effects those around him and the business itself. Especially women who are already disadvantaged by inequalities in tech.

You can take the your viewpoint to the extreme to prove a point: yeah that Himmler guy knows how to engineer and plan. all that matters right?

One's actions affect others, and even disregarding the (evidently not agreed upon fact) that we should actively be combating racism, misogyny, discrimination etc, it's bad for business when one persons behavior makes other employees less productive, less likely to work for your company in the first place, less likely for customers to buy, or open the company to liability or settling a suit since they now have reports of his behavior.

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#55

Post by klyrs »

ivraatiems wrote: post #11

I remember trying to read Chaos Monkeys because it sounded up my alley, and stopping a few chapters in because the author's tone, to be frank, made me think he was at least pretentious and at worst a psychopath. I'm not sure that's worth a firing from Apple, but based on the book, Popehat's rule of assholes* might be in play here. * Popehat's rule of assholes: From Popehat, https://twitter.com/popehat , roughly stati…

Being an asshole to an asshole is working within their framework?

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#56

Post by ivraatiems »

MyHypatia wrote: post #48
ivraatiems wrote: post #11

I remember trying to read Chaos Monkeys because it sounded up my alley, and stopping a few chapters in because the author's tone, to be frank, made me think he was at least pretentious and at worst a psychopath. I'm not sure that's worth a firing from Apple, but based on the book, Popehat's rule of assholes* might be in play here. * Popehat's rule of assholes: From Popehat, https://twitter.com/popehat , roughly stati…

If the company had let him stay, how should it respond to female employees who bring up "Hey, this person wrote that women are useless baggage and he's going to evaluate me, determine my salary, and career opportunities here. Why should I stay?" Should all the women just quit? What's the point in staying? If this were written about men instead, I don't think male employees would stick around to watch their compensati…

This is pretty much what just happened at Basecamp - the owners made it clear who they did and did not value as people, and the people they didn't value (just over a third of the company) quit.

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#57

Post by williamsmj »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #49
ivraatiems wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could he do the job if there were any female colleagues around? Clearly he's too busy thinking about whether they're attractive to focus on his work.

I guess we will never know since the mob made it clear that he does not belong despite claims of 'inclusive values' and 'diverse perspectives'. Its funny when those perspective and values include only those that are already acceptable to the mob.

Correct, we'll never know because actions have consequences.

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#58

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

ivraatiems wrote: post #52
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we will never know since the mob made it clear that he does not belong despite claims of 'inclusive values' and 'diverse perspectives'. Its funny when those perspective and values include only those that are already acceptable to the mob.

By the mob you mean "the people who would have to work with him"?

By mob I mean people, who, in that order:

1. Learn there is a new hire 2. their first course of action is to scour his internet history for things to be offended by 3. find something 4. get a lynch mob going 5. complain to HR 6. get guy fired 7. start a party

Re: ‘Misogynistic’ Apple hire is out hours after employees call for investigation

#59

Post by tomjakubowski »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #35
ryanwhitney wrote: post #19

Outside of the main quote that keeps showing up, he was also fairly creepy writing about women he worked with . > Unlike most women at Facebook (or in the Bay Area, really) she knew how to dress; forties-style, form-fitting dresses from neck to knee were her mainstay. > There were few women one would call conventionally attractive at Facebook. The few there were rarely if ever dressed for work with their femininity o…

The only thing that should matter is: Can he do the job? Whether he wrote a book people get their panties twisted over does not appear to be a part of that job description. When did this concept become so controversial?

The question before Apple was whether they'd lose more talent by retaining this guy or by firing him. The answer was clear enough that he was gone in hours.
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