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Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

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Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#61

Post by chubbyish »

jollybean wrote: post #33

I'm generally wary of cancel culture, but I don't even understand how a person could even really say such a thing i.e. 'women are useless and full of crap' let alone publish it . Forget the bigotry ... just the lack of self awareness is pretty crazy. I don't like the infusion of Damore however, that's a different discussion, I wish people would stop crossing streams on such an important subject, full of nuance in eve…

Well because he didn’t write that.

He is comparing Bay Area women to the Eastern European woman he is dating.

Now find me a woman who hasn’t ever generalized about a difference between men from different backgrounds in jest.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#62

Post by SamReidHughes »

tomnipotent wrote: post #31
Udik wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is not whether it's allowed or not, it is. The question is whether it's stupid or not, and I think it is, terribly so.

So women should be forced to work under a known misogynist, their salary and promotions tied to a boss that thinks them inferior and has literally published a book saying so? Yeah, there are no examples of that going poorly.

Just have all the women and men in the org share their SAT math scores if they're worried about bias.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#63

Post by ceph_ »

rasputnik6502 wrote: post #51
ceph_ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His doc repeatedly said programs that are aimed at a helping women and people of color should be ended. And that diversity of gender and race should not be a goal. I don't think it's a big leap.

Many years ago a big tech company opened a new office in my city and started recruiting developers at my university. They wanted to be fair and treat both sexes equally so they decided on male/female parity (at least 30% women). But on my year (computer science) there were just 3 gals vs 30 guys, but there were groups with even worse ratio. So the company hired all female students they could and then started looking…

That is nothing like the programs at Google. More like "increase outreach at historically black colleges".

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#64

Post by SirSourdough »

chubbyish wrote: post #59
SirSourdough wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when can you not judge a person on what they write in a published book? This isn’t “crime”, nobody is claiming it’s illegal. But it’s still sexist and flat out wrong to essentially say that most women are worthless, and it’s perfectly reasonable not to want to work with or for someone who demonstrates such sexist thinking and poor judgement.

What percentage of Bay Area women comprise all women in the world? And what is your definition of most? He is comparing Bay Area women to Eastern European women.

I don’t believe that you can make a comment as sweeping as “most Bay Area women... are so useless you could trade them for a jerry can of diesel” that doesn’t reflect a stance on all women.

There are 7.75 million people in the “Bay Area”, presumably about half women. The idea that you could believe nearly 4 million women with totally disparate histories - only united by currently living in the Bay Area and being women - are mostly useless without making sexist generalizations about women defies credibility in my view.

And I used the word “most” because his quote begins “most Bay Area women are soft, cosseted, and naive...” so you’ll have to ask him what he means by “most”.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#65

Post by sudosysgen »

meinfuhrer wrote: post #43
fortran77 wrote: post #32

Unlike his critics, I read his book. I enjoyed it. I'd hire him.

I think many are too quick to crucify the guy after reading a few quotes. I mean, I can see how some of those comments may be construed as misogynistic, but I would need to read the whole book to understand the context, and I'll definitely not pass judgement before doing that.

Nice username btw

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#66

Post by dang »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #36
MyHypatia wrote: post #27

A person who wrote that Bay Area women are "soft", "weak" "useless baggage" that "should be traded for shotgun shells" should not be entrusted with a position where he evaluates other people's job performance.

The article quotes one of those Bay Area woman in tech who finds her job and life "exhausting." A common affliction. Why are these strong Bay Area women so exhausted all the time?

Please not here Sam.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#67

Post by imperfectcats »

ceph_ wrote: post #46
legostormtroopr wrote: post #12

This was buried in the article, but James Danmore is racist now. > notorious ex-Googler James Damore, who suggest this is because women and people of color lack the innate qualities needed to succeed in tech. It seems that people just keep tacking on “sins” to see what sticks to people’s reputations regardless of the facts. Was there anything in Danmores article that even mentioned people of color?

His doc repeatedly said programs that are aimed at a helping women and people of color should be ended. And that diversity of gender and race should not be a goal. I don't think it's a big leap.

Can you point me to the section that says that: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I...

Being as generous with the interpretation as possible, I guess suggesting new programs to replace existing ones could be interpreted as "programs that are aimed at a helping women and people of color should be ended", as ending one and replacing it is kind of ending. Saying "repeatedly" seems a stretch though.

Can you explain what I'm missing that lead to your beliefs?

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#68

Post by ceph_ »

imperfectcats wrote: post #67
ceph_ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His doc repeatedly said programs that are aimed at a helping women and people of color should be ended. And that diversity of gender and race should not be a goal. I don't think it's a big leap.

Can you point me to the section that says that: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I... Being as generous with the interpretation as possible, I guess suggesting new programs to replace existing ones could be interpreted as "programs that are aimed at a helping women and people of color should be ended", as ending one and replacing it is kind of ending. Saying "repeatedly" seems a stretch thou…

Under the harms section first bullet for things to end: "Programs, mentoring, and classes only for people with a certain gender or race"

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#69

Post by Wowfunhappy »

Udik wrote: post #15
MyHypatia wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the clown world is hiring someone who wrote: “Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self-regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box o…

This is a wider excerpt: "When she was in her teens, her father decided to move the family to the United States, where they suffered a financial reversal she was unwilling to talk about. Suddenly not among the moneyed class, she hustled herself through the redbrick boondocks of the University of Vermont. Citibank internship led to a Deutsche Bank job, and after a few years she was an equity derivatives trader at Deut…

I actually agree that in context, the passage is every-so-slightly better. But it's still an extremely offensive thing to say! If you were a woman in the bay area, and the man responsible for your performance reviews had written that "most women in the bay area" are "useless baggage you'd trade for a box of shotgun shells", would you expect to get a fair evaluation?

There are other situations—Teen Vogue, for instance—where I think the world greatly overreacts, but this doesn't strike me as one of those cases.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#70

Post by doopy1 »

I haven't read the book, but the excerpts to me looks like someone writing some dark shit in a certain voice to entertain a certain type of reader. I see how people can think this stuff is in poor taste, but not sure I like a world where someone's "creative writing" (successful mind you) becomes grounds for dismissal from a completely unrelated job.
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