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Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

businessinsider.com.au

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Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#71

Post by loeg »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #50
dkarras wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US taxes global individual income... Always wondered why US citizens do not make a bigger deal out of this. If I understand correctly, if you are a US citizen, but live somewhere else in the world, IRS still expects to be paid tax from your individual income in that foreign country (possibly in addition to the tax you pay in your country of residence) right? I assume there are minimum income thresholds but still...…

> Always wondered why US citizens do not make a bigger deal out of this. It affects a relatively small set of people (those with substantial income who live abroad in a lower-tax jurisdiction), and it'd be politically difficult to change. > I assume there are minimum income thresholds but still... None other than the normal thresholds for income taxes. The one ameliorating factor is the foreign tax credit: you get a…

> > I assume there are minimum income thresholds but still...

> None other than the normal thresholds for income taxes.

That's not right. There is a specific foreign earned income exclusion: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/fore...

It's around $100k (increasing with inflation) for individuals.

> However, you may qualify to exclude your foreign earnings from income up to an amount that is adjusted annually for inflation ($103,900 for 2018, $105,900 for 2019, $107,600 for 2020, and $108,700 for 2021).

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#72

Post by loeg »

beckman466 wrote: post #49
dkarras wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US taxes global individual income... Always wondered why US citizens do not make a bigger deal out of this. If I understand correctly, if you are a US citizen, but live somewhere else in the world, IRS still expects to be paid tax from your individual income in that foreign country (possibly in addition to the tax you pay in your country of residence) right? I assume there are minimum income thresholds but still...…

> if you are a US citizen, but live somewhere else in the world, IRS still expects to be paid tax from your individual income in that foreign country (possibly in addition to the tax you pay in your country of residence) right? Does anyone know more about this? Do American pasport holders abroad pay taxes twice?

Only if you make more than about $100k (individual) and your foreign tax rate is actually lower than the US's (uncommon).

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#73

Post by manquer »

eloff wrote: post #58
manquer wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how it is structured. One way for example could be akin to a cash (and equivalents) tax on holding large amounts. It would incentize spending the cash in r&d , acquisitions , dividends etc. Low margin companies will not be too badly affected

That's not a revenue tax anymore. That just forces companies to minimize their cash stockpiles through investment, inventory, dividends, etc. How does that make the tax system fairer?

All those categories have already taxes associated with them

Expenses -( VAT/GST etc)

R&D/salaries - income tax for employees

Divendent - income and other taxes

Acquisitions/investments - seller pays capital gain tax etc

Disincentizing savings to boost the economy is not only applicable for regular people it also applies for companies.

Low interest rates are really today applicable for us. Companies with billions of dollars are getting enough returns to keep cash rather than spend it.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#74

Post by wolfretcrap »

paxys wrote: post #19

> Uber transfered its intellectual property through a $16 billion “loan” from one of its subsidiaries in Singapore that in turn owns one of Uber’s Dutch shell companies, a manuever that grants the company a $1 billion tax break every year for the next 20 years, the researchers found. Shit like this makes my head hurt and infuriates me at the same time.

This is if you are a startup founder, it makes sense to accept investment, this brings the tax dodging practises which those people already know about and now it's available to you too

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#75

Post by xyzzyz »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #50
dkarras wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US taxes global individual income... Always wondered why US citizens do not make a bigger deal out of this. If I understand correctly, if you are a US citizen, but live somewhere else in the world, IRS still expects to be paid tax from your individual income in that foreign country (possibly in addition to the tax you pay in your country of residence) right? I assume there are minimum income thresholds but still...…

> Always wondered why US citizens do not make a bigger deal out of this. It affects a relatively small set of people (those with substantial income who live abroad in a lower-tax jurisdiction), and it'd be politically difficult to change. > I assume there are minimum income thresholds but still... None other than the normal thresholds for income taxes. The one ameliorating factor is the foreign tax credit: you get a…

> None other than the normal thresholds for income taxes.

That’s false. First $100k of foreign income is exempt.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#76

Post by wolfretcrap »

nceqs3 wrote: post #57
paxys wrote: post #19

> Uber transfered its intellectual property through a $16 billion “loan” from one of its subsidiaries in Singapore that in turn owns one of Uber’s Dutch shell companies, a manuever that grants the company a $1 billion tax break every year for the next 20 years, the researchers found. Shit like this makes my head hurt and infuriates me at the same time.

Be mad at politicians for writing tax codes that work like this rather than companies for taking advantage of them.

I just ask one question:

Who do you think politicians have their dinner with? Is it a middle class tax paying person or some rich businessmen friends?

Who will get his sympathy? Extrapolate from there.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#77

Post by sdljfjafsd »

tkubacki wrote: post #38

The only way to stop this, is to create income (eg. 1-2%) based tax regulations instead of profit based. No way to cheat.

As other people have pointed low margin businesses like fintech would get skewered with this. For example, payment processing companies recognize the value of the transaction as revenue even though their cut is 1-2%.

You would shift the gaming of system from happening on the net income level to gaming of the system happening on the revenue level.

Re: Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on $6B in revenue

#78

Post by fighterpilot »

I've heard this suggested before: abolish all corporate tax and increase capital gains tax to equal income tax.

This will level the playing field between large and small businesses, since the former has the means to dodge byzantine corporate tax laws.

It will also give an incentive for companies to stay onshore.

Any downsides?

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