Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting • Hacker News Board

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#51

Post by factsaresacred » Thu, May 06, 2021, 9:38 PM UTC

falcor84 wrote: post #50

factsaresacred wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would be a valid thought and fact-gathering process for that member of the majority group to decide whether to take the concern seriously or dismiss it? The onus is on the accuser to provide evidence of their claims. Management agreed that a list of funny names does not count. Yet the employee continued to make unfalsifiable assertions such as: "the silence in the background is what racism and white supremacy…

>Management agreed that a list of funny names does not count. But why? What process led those people to decide it doesn't count? And why would only the management have a voice in that decision?

Does concluding that a list of funny names - mostly of western origin - is not evidence of white supremacy require a process? It's almost axiomatic.

Claims of white supremacy need to be backed up with proof.

Histrionic breakdowns and screaming at screens doesn't count as proof I'm afraid.

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#52

Post by stefanmichael » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:38 AM UTC

chubbyish wrote: post #22

IAmEveryone wrote: post #10

Such a great example showing how useless the idea of “banning politics at work” is. If the employee groups’ request to delete the list of “funny” names was political, then creating and updating that list in the first place must also have been political. I guess it’s “politics” only when the founders disagree with it.

DHH agreed to delete it immediately. The politics was when one Asian employee wouldn’t let the issue die and posted the path to genocide pyramid about how laughing at funny names was just a step on the way to genocide. Talk about jumping to conclusions.

It was bad faith of DHH to say that posting the pyramid was meant to compare the list of names to genocide. The good faith interpretation would make it extremely clear that the employee was comparing the list of names to the lowest rung in the pyramid AKA the farthest removed from genocide. That rung is simply called "biased attitudes" and includes a wide span of things, none of them remotely comparable to genocide and several of them could be used to accurately represent the list. Eg. "Fear of differences", "Stereotypes", "Justifying biases by seeking out like minded people"

I don't really understand how or why DHH would construe that as "you're comparing a list of company names to genocide"

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#53

Post by chubbyish » Thu, May 13, 2021, 12:28 AM UTC

factsaresacred wrote: post #51

falcor84 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Management agreed that a list of funny names does not count. But why? What process led those people to decide it doesn't count? And why would only the management have a voice in that decision?

Does concluding that a list of funny names - mostly of western origin - is not evidence of white supremacy require a process? It's almost axiomatic. Claims of white supremacy need to be backed up with proof. Histrionic breakdowns and screaming at screens doesn't count as proof I'm afraid.

It’s so funny how everyone just plays this definition game. Try to expand a definition of something bad to include everything you don’t like.

At this point I don’t think white supremacy even has a meaning anymore.

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#54

Post by chubbyish » Thu, May 13, 2021, 12:37 AM UTC

stefanmichael wrote: post #52

chubbyish wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DHH agreed to delete it immediately. The politics was when one Asian employee wouldn’t let the issue die and posted the path to genocide pyramid about how laughing at funny names was just a step on the way to genocide. Talk about jumping to conclusions.

It was bad faith of DHH to say that posting the pyramid was meant to compare the list of names to genocide. The good faith interpretation would make it extremely clear that the employee was comparing the list of names to the lowest rung in the pyramid AKA the farthest removed from genocide. That rung is simply called "biased attitudes" and includes a wide span of things, none of them remotely comparable to genocide a…

> The Pyramid shows biased behaviors, growing in complexity from the bottom to the top. Although the behaviors at each level negatively impact individuals and groups, as one moves up the pyramid, the behaviors have more life-threatening consequences. Like a pyramid, the upper levels are supported by the lower levels. If people or institutions treat behaviors on the lower levels as being acceptable or “normal,” it results in the behaviors at the next level becoming more accepted. In response to the questions of the world community about where the hate of genocide comes from, the Pyramid of Hate demonstrates that the hate of genocide is built upon the acceptance of behaviors described in the lower levels of the pyramid.

The point being made was that this is really bad because it’s a step on the way to genocide.

That’s what DHH said I believe.

And it would be in the context of trying to get the employee fired who made it.

Also the other co-founder is Jewish. So having someone bring up something like that is probably insulting.

Re: Inside the all-hands meeting that led to a third of Basecamp employees quitting

#55

Post by dang » Thu, May 13, 2021, 4:08 AM UTC

chubbyish wrote: post #54

stefanmichael wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was bad faith of DHH to say that posting the pyramid was meant to compare the list of names to genocide. The good faith interpretation would make it extremely clear that the employee was comparing the list of names to the lowest rung in the pyramid AKA the farthest removed from genocide. That rung is simply called "biased attitudes" and includes a wide span of things, none of them remotely comparable to genocide a…

> The Pyramid shows biased behaviors, growing in complexity from the bottom to the top. Although the behaviors at each level negatively impact individuals and groups, as one moves up the pyramid, the behaviors have more life-threatening consequences. Like a pyramid, the upper levels are supported by the lower levels. If people or institutions treat behaviors on the lower levels as being acceptable or “normal,” it res…

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