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The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’

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Re: The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’

#21

Post by mywittyname »

marnett wrote: post #9
sidlls wrote: post #4

"In a society that emphasized individuality, it is not hard to imagine that they became folk heroes of a kind—and that many of the people who laughed at them felt a tug of longing for the freedom with which they lived." This is similar to the canard that "your bully is just jealous of your ." It's codswallop: more like to be the normal reaction to a trend taken "too far," as it were, and something like the backlash o…

That’s an interesting categorization of the sub-cultures/scenes you listed. Are there any sub-cultures you would classify as “other” (in the sense of being other than the status quo of its era) and having introspection and awareness?

Furries?

I mean, their whole schtick is that they feel like a different animal trapped in a human body. That's pretty introspective and self-aware, I guess.

Re: The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’

#22

Post by ska »

sidlls wrote: post #4

"In a society that emphasized individuality, it is not hard to imagine that they became folk heroes of a kind—and that many of the people who laughed at them felt a tug of longing for the freedom with which they lived." This is similar to the canard that "your bully is just jealous of your ." It's codswallop: more like to be the normal reaction to a trend taken "too far," as it were, and something like the backlash o…

This seems an idiosyncratic characterization to me. Bullying is driven by insecurity, though not necessarily jealousy.

This seems quite separable from the general arc of subgroup/subgenre identity which seems to follow a typical arc of from groundbreaking through "cool", to mass adoption, to "played out" as you put it. The article suggests "macaroni" was something beyond the predictable cyclic arc, in at least that it's impact was unusually strong and short lived.

Re: The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’

#23

Post by Talanes »

sidlls wrote: post #4

"In a society that emphasized individuality, it is not hard to imagine that they became folk heroes of a kind—and that many of the people who laughed at them felt a tug of longing for the freedom with which they lived." This is similar to the canard that "your bully is just jealous of your ." It's codswallop: more like to be the normal reaction to a trend taken "too far," as it were, and something like the backlash o…

>Nobody was jealous of the supposed freedom that these people had, so much as they were amused (or appalled) at the absurd lack of introspection and awareness they exhibited by latching onto a played out trend.

Mocking them was just as much of a played out trend though. We've got evidence of it as far back as 1772 linked right above.

Re: The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’

#24

Post by Talanes »

marnett wrote: post #9
sidlls wrote: post #4

"In a society that emphasized individuality, it is not hard to imagine that they became folk heroes of a kind—and that many of the people who laughed at them felt a tug of longing for the freedom with which they lived." This is similar to the canard that "your bully is just jealous of your ." It's codswallop: more like to be the normal reaction to a trend taken "too far," as it were, and something like the backlash o…

That’s an interesting categorization of the sub-cultures/scenes you listed. Are there any sub-cultures you would classify as “other” (in the sense of being other than the status quo of its era) and having introspection and awareness?

I'd be willing to guess that the common denominator in those scenes is that the GP encountered them as teenagers. I've met plenty of introspective and self-aware Goths, but self-aware teenagers are rare.

Re: The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’

#25

Post by mbg721 »

mywittyname wrote: post #16
kemayo wrote: post #2

I remember seeing the analogy made that "stuck a feather in his cap and called it macaroni" could be translated into a modern context as "wrote a G on his belt and called it Gucci".

Some dumb American came around driving an abomination. Clipped a tie onto his shirt and called it sophistication.

Brooklyn hipster came to town

In an '83 Mercedes,

Slapped a moustache on his lip

And belted out "Mmmm'ladies."

Re: The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’

#26

Post by feoren »

marnett wrote: post #9
sidlls wrote: post #4

"In a society that emphasized individuality, it is not hard to imagine that they became folk heroes of a kind—and that many of the people who laughed at them felt a tug of longing for the freedom with which they lived." This is similar to the canard that "your bully is just jealous of your ." It's codswallop: more like to be the normal reaction to a trend taken "too far," as it were, and something like the backlash o…

That’s an interesting categorization of the sub-cultures/scenes you listed. Are there any sub-cultures you would classify as “other” (in the sense of being other than the status quo of its era) and having introspection and awareness?

Nerds/geeks. If you want to reduce it down to teen-movie-level stereotypes, then people in both the "popular" and "counterculture" groups are making decisions about what to wear and how to act based on what other people do or don't see as popular or trendy. The nerds and geeks are the ones who ignored all of that: band geeks, computer nerds, anime nerds, whatever. Of course they still try to "fit in" within their respective groups but their groups are centered around a shared interest, rather than solely what is or isn't popular.

Re: The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’

#28

Post by freshair »

moshmosh wrote: post #13
elliekelly wrote: post #3

> And with the girls be handy I'd never really given much thought to what this line meant but knowing the context it's pretty gross.

I always just took it as "good with", as in "handy with a chainsaw". Though it's old enough that it could mean almost anything—I don't know how far back the "good with" meaning of "handy" goes. Hold on, let's see what Webster's 1913 says... 2. Skillful in using the hand; dexterous; ready; adroit. "Each is handy in his way." Dryden. OK, that one seems a bit... vulgar, at worst, and is the sense I took it in, basically…

This use of the word 'handy' reminds me of the classic Red Green Show quip: "If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."

I have always taken this to mean that if you aren't good to look at, you can still make yourself appealing by being good at things. There is a possible double entendre with foreplay, but I never considered this joke to be suggesting unconsensual groping (I think that's the implication being suggested above?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Green_Show#Handyman_Co...

Re: The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’

#29

Post by barbecue_sauce »

mbg721 wrote: post #25
mywittyname wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some dumb American came around driving an abomination. Clipped a tie onto his shirt and called it sophistication.

Brooklyn hipster came to town In an '83 Mercedes, Slapped a moustache on his lip And belted out "Mmmm'ladies."

This seems to conflate hipsters and neckbeards.

Re: The Macaroni in ‘Yankee Doodle’

#30

Post by elliekelly »

moshmosh wrote: post #13
elliekelly wrote: post #3

> And with the girls be handy I'd never really given much thought to what this line meant but knowing the context it's pretty gross.

I always just took it as "good with", as in "handy with a chainsaw". Though it's old enough that it could mean almost anything—I don't know how far back the "good with" meaning of "handy" goes. Hold on, let's see what Webster's 1913 says... 2. Skillful in using the hand; dexterous; ready; adroit. "Each is handy in his way." Dryden. OK, that one seems a bit... vulgar, at worst, and is the sense I took it in, basically…

I definitely think it’s a vulgar double-meaning but I think it’s less “women walk over over him” and more “he’s gay”. It’s practically lifted right from The Miller’s Tale where the “dandy” and feminine male boarder is repeatedly described as “handy” and is both clever and literally very handy with his landlady in the “locker room talk” sense. The story ends with the dandy boarder taking a hot iron rod to the butt and the cuckholded landlord, a carpenter who you would expect to be stereotypically “handy”, breaking his hand.
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